Speaker 2: 0:02

Welcome to the Saints that Serve, podcast where, each week, your hosts dive into the crossroads of faith, culture and the unknown.

Speaker 1: 0:15

Christ is Lord and the kingdom is now. We are the Saints that Serve. Welcome everybody to the Saints that Serve.

Speaker 2: 0:42

Podcast, podcast we're just getting right into it aren't we, that's the Saints that Serve podcast, that's right.

Speaker 1: 0:51

Episode 51. 51, baby, I can't believe it. 51. We made it past 50. If you didn't listen, last week we talked about the end times, the end of days. That's right, the end of days. So if you want to go back and listen to that, you can. But really you should be really paying attention to this episode because you're listening to it right now yeah, and really pay attention to next week's episode, that is, episode 52, and that is our one-year anniversary of the podcast. That's right.

Speaker 1: 1:28

We are going to have a special long episode. I don't know how long long is we're going to get started and wherever it takes us, it takes us there Because the peek behind the curtain. We haven't quite recorded it yet and we'll get there, but we're going to get it done. We're going to get it way done, way before the episode airs. Heck, yeah, baby, it's going to be edited, it's going to be beautiful, but we're going to have so many guests on that episode, it's going to be glorious. That's the goal. That's the goal of being glorious. Yeah, the goal is to be glorious. That's right. No, the goal is to bring glory to the glory one. Amen, glorious one. That's right.

Speaker 1: 2:09

And then and his name is Jesus, just in case you didn't know, just so you, if this is your first episode and are confused about who we are, it's about Jesus. It's always about Jesus, that's right. But, speaking of Jesus, every single Friday we pray for you. Yep, we call it Pray For you Friday. It's really clever, isn't it? Ingenious, ingenious. So every Friday we pray for you. So, if you want, you can send us your prayer request to saintsthat Serve at gmailcom, that's. If you want to keep it private, or if you want everybody to pray for you, leave it down in the comments. We also have a link in the bottom of the description of this episode, in all episodes that will you'll be able to send us an sms text message. Yes, and then also, we are on all social media. That is relevant.

Speaker 1: 3:03

Yeah, I was going to say we're not on MySpace or Zynga. Yeah, we're on Facebook, instagram, twitter.

Speaker 2: 3:11

We're not on TikTok, though, so I don't know if that's still relevant or not.

Speaker 1: 3:17

We kind of chose not to, because around the time that we were making decisions on social media was the TikTok ban was happening. Yeah, and it technically, to my understanding, with the law. So they are still trying to ban it, and what Trump did only postponed the ban. So it could still happen. Yeah, okay, so we could be on TikTok, but then we could also immediately disappear. So we could be on TikTok, but then we could also immediately disappear. Plus, I feel like on TikTok it wouldn't even be like the episode stuff. I feel like it would just be us being goofy in the real world Goofy, bomb goofy. That's just what we are. We're goofy guys who love the Lord. That's right. But anyways, that's all the announcements I've got. Yeah, do you have any announcements?

Speaker 2: 4:08

No, that's it. Really, the big thing we got going on is episode 52. That's right. Like we want everybody, we want as many people to tune in and we want as many people to share episode 52 when it comes out, because that will be our one-year mark. Like it's a big deal.

Speaker 1: 4:23

It is a really big deal. Like you don't see, a lot of shows get past that one year mark and we were on time every single Monday, except one time. Except one time, and that is not counting all our bonus content. Yeah, it's weird because I think that we have 11 pieces of bonus content on the RSS feed, which is like the podcast apps and whatnot, and that's not counting our live streams. So hours upon hours of content for this show Riveting.

Speaker 2: 5:01

I dare to say Riveting, riveting content. That's right. So yeah, I'm ready to get into the main topic. If you are, I am.

Speaker 1: 5:09

So, tyler, this is your transition Into what we already Hinted at At the beginning of the show Dinosaurs. Sorry, not the movie dinosaurs, no, I was.

Speaker 2: 5:22

Oh, I thought you had A specific way you were gonna say no, I was gonna do.

Speaker 1: 5:24

I thought you had a specific way you were going to say it. No, I was going to do you, I was just pausing for dramatic effect Way to go. Okay go ahead.

Speaker 2: 5:31

Dinosaurs.

Speaker 1: 5:34

But yeah, and again, not the movie Dinosaurs, though we can talk about that movie, we can bring it up, but just dinosaurs in general. People like dinosaurs. Right, people do like dinosaurs. So we kind of a couple weeks ago, when we were talking about the flat Earth versus the round Earth, yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:52

We started getting into dinosaurs.

Speaker 1: 5:56

Did you catch on to what I said? Yeah, okay, just making sure Too late.

Speaker 2: 6:00

It took me a long time, way too long for you. I just kept going. I was like wait a minute, I'll just roll with it.

Speaker 1: 6:05

Yeah, yeah, flat earthers, no. Young earth versus new earth theory, which, within the young earth theory, they believe that humans lived alongside dinosaurs. So we kind of talked about that a little bit and then decided let's just talk about dinosaurs in general. So we're no, talked about that a little bit and then decided let's just talk about dinosaurs in general. Yeah, so we're no experts, no, you know what would be?

Speaker 2: 6:30

another fun episode. We've talked about the time of the Earth. We should do the shape of the Earth.

Speaker 1: 6:36

Do you want to do a flat, actual, real, flat Earth?

Speaker 2: 6:38

Flat Earth versus hollow Earth, versus globe Earth. Let's do it and just do all three of them and debate the validity of each.

Speaker 1: 6:47

I'm down okay look out for episode 53, the round earth episode the what shape is the earth episode. Yeah, we're just gonna call it shapes, shapes love it, but yeah, we're, uh, we're not dinosaur experts at all. But do you know who is a dinosaur expert? Jesus, no, your son, oh.

Speaker 2: 7:11

I mean who is sitting?

Speaker 1: 7:12

right next to you right now. Jesus is more of a dinosaur expert he is, but your son is also a dinosaur expert, who we have asked to come onto the show Yep and give us some dinosaur facts.

Speaker 2: 7:25

And for this episode exclusively. He is Littlefoot.

Speaker 1: 7:28

And if you don't get that reference, get out, get out of your own house, get out, get out of your own phone.

Speaker 2: 7:37

Yeah, your car. Whatever you're using to listen to this, lock your phone, put it in an envelope and mail it. To what was it? 1672 Pennsylvania Avenue.

Speaker 1: 7:49

Mail it to the president. So, Littlefoot, can you give us a dinosaur fact? The T-Rex's bite force was over 1070 pounds close, close.

Speaker 2: 8:09

What is the exact? 12 000 12 800 pounds, which is crazy to think right yeah, yeah, because what's like the, what is the number one animal that you think of when you think like the most intense, like force, like force, like, I don't know, like a crocodile or an alligator. Right, that's what you that's, that's what I think of, right? So, uh, crocodile. So a crocodile bite force is around 3,700 pounds per square inch or 16,460 newtons, whichever one you use.

Speaker 1: 8:58

So if you got bit by a T-Rex, it would be like four crocodiles it would be like four crocodiles.

Speaker 2: 9:09

Yeah, it would be.

Speaker 1: 9:09

It would be the somewhat of the equivalent of four times the power of a crocodile's bite, which you see happen, like they have that death roll, like they grab a hold of you, like their bite force, like is strong, but with crocodiles what gets you is they get a hold of you and they just start rolling in the water.

Speaker 2: 9:23

Yeah, like essentially they're trying to like twist off whatever they've bitten down on well, because, like the, the way that their jaw this is my understanding, the way that their jaw is structured and works, is that it's a locking mechanism. Once it snaps down, it locks, and the death roll idea is that you're not getting loose from the bite, and so they're going to keep on rolling you and, essentially, waterboard you. Yeah, because you're in the water Until you drowned. But, ironically, if you can get a crocodile's mouth shut, all you got to do is grab it with your hands.

Speaker 1: 10:00

Because it has the downward force Correct, not the opening force. All of the muscles are going towards the downward force.

Speaker 2: 10:05

Correct, not the opening force. All of the muscles are going towards the downward bite.

Speaker 1: 10:08

Yeah, so if you ever see, like those crazy stunts on YouTube, like people will grab the top of a dinosaur's mouth and pull back and they're able to hold back a dinosaur like not a dinosaur a crocodile, crocodile and pull it back and hold it back because it can't open its mouth Like easily as biting Crocodile and pull it back and hold it back because it can't open its mouth Like easily as biting Well, they wouldn't be able to hold it back because they would be able to force it down.

Speaker 1: 10:33

I got a video to show you later then, because I've seen exactly this in it.

Speaker 2: 10:37

Yeah, and another thing is crocodiles, and alligators are technically living dinosaurs, right well yeah, but I was gonna say they're two very different things oh, that too yes like the crocodile.

Speaker 2: 10:53

There's different kinds of crocodiles but they're more aggressive than alligators like it amazes me. Have you seen, I mean, anyone who's on the internet watching videos and stuff? It's almost like a night and day difference. Like you see a crocodile and it's like on the Nile, so it's like in Africa people are running, you know, from it, or it's like super aggressive towards other animals by it. And then you go and you see the Florida alligator and like it's a guy like cuddling it and walking it through the water, Like yeah, you know, it's just two different things. It's crazy Okay.

Speaker 1: 11:30

So you see these videos of people like bonding with these wild animals that you don't normally think are is something that could be domesticated or tamed. Do you believe that those are real in the sense of like? Okay, like you said, a guy like is spending time in bonding with an alligator in the water, or somebody has like a, like a bear or like a or a pet lion or tiger in their house, right? Do you think that these animals truly see oh, oh, I am a domesticated animal. Or is it like they just see I'm not attacking you now because I'm not mad at you you provide me food, like you know that kind of thing? Do you think that they actually have an attachment for their owner?

Speaker 2: 12:20

I would say this is my opinion. I am in the camp of, it's a dominion mindset. So, like in the dominion of the wild, the instincts are like the guiding compass for all animals. So for crocodiles, alligators, lions, tigers, it's all about survival and the survival of the fittest. So you'll see, like a younger, more aggressive tiger will be more willing to fight another rival tiger for control of territory or for food or whatever. But a older tiger who's coming up on the end of its life, it's less eager to get into a fight because it's not as strong and it's just that instinct knows that it could not make it out of the fight. Kind of a deal. But you get into the dominion of man where man rules over the dinosaur. Not dinosaur Rules over these animals like tigers and alligators and things. They've created a regimen for the animal. So the animals know when feeding time is, depending on how disciplined the owner is. But these animals would know when feeding time is. They've been conditioned to the presence, the immediate presence, of human.

Speaker 1: 13:45

See, that's the thing is in the wild, not a companion, but just almost like a servant, maybe.

Speaker 2: 13:51

No, you don't think so. The condition is this is not strange, this is normal In the wild. The human scent is strange, and so they're frightened and they go immediate into the fight or flight mode. That's why it's a problem, like in certain areas where there's a lot of humans but the animals are still feral, where there's a little bit more of a combative side, like with bears and elastos.

Speaker 1: 14:18

So it's not that it's been tamed, but it's just calm.

Speaker 2: 14:22

It's not afraid anymore, like it's been conditioned to the scent of humans to where it doesn't. And animal attacks come from fear Sometimes, but it depends on the animal, because this is where I'm getting at with, like the grizzlies in Alaska, if it's an area where there's a lot of humans and the grizzlies have gotten used to the scent, they're no longer looking at the humans as a threat, they're looking at them as a food source, because everything to a grizzly bear is a food source, because it's the apex predator for its area, gotcha, and whenever it doesn't feel the need to feed because it's satisfied with its food, like if it's like in captivity then if it's conditioned to the human scent and it knows like, hey, this is, this is how I get my food source, it's, it's more likely to be calm and it's been conditioned to acknowledge the superiority of the person.

Speaker 2: 15:15

Because ever since it was a small animal it's been disciplined and dictated.

Speaker 2: 15:20

Its life's been disciplined and dictated by the owner.

Speaker 2: 15:23

So there's that hierarchical fear been conditioned into it, whereas in the wild the hierarchical fear comes through combat, like different animals going up against each other or even just sizing each other up and realizing like yeah, I can't take that guy on, so I'm going to be submissive and get out of here.

Speaker 2: 15:44

Like, yeah, I can't take that guy on, so I'm going to be submissive and get out of here. So that's what I would say is that in the domain of humans they've been conditioned to submit and be obedient and in that they are sustained and provided for, so they bond to the human and they have that relationship, whereas in the wild they haven't. Since a you, since they were born, they haven't been conditioned to understand the fear of man like in in a respect way, and that's that's just how I see it, like I think originally all of creation was going, was, was under submission of man. We see it in Genesis Like man is to have dominion over all of the earth and I think in the fallen state is where animals gain the fear of man, in the sense of like fight or flight fear, do you think?

Speaker 1: 16:38

then that they are reverting back to something that is naturally primal, like I don't know how to put it, but just like something.

Speaker 2: 16:47

So back in time, the beginning of time yeah, I think the I think that the ability to tame animals like that man has, the ability to tame animals shows the, the intelligent design of god where mankind originally in a perfect world, mankind was tasked with having dominion over all of creation and tending to all of creation. So, in a chaotic world where, you know, animals and dinosaurs are having to fight each other for food to survive, dinosaurs are having to fight each other for food to survive. In a perfect world, hypothetically it could have been that mankind is so involved in the life cycle of all animals there is no need to fight. So they're all, or have territory or anything. Yeah, in a sense, they're all tamed because they're perfectly managed by a perfect image bearer of God who perfectly is present in his creation.

Speaker 2: 17:48

You know so the fall and sin is what causes the chaos of what we have today, where animals are instinctually now Against humans, against humans and each other. Yeah, and think about it with us, with our instinctual tendency to sin. Like it says that we were born into sin because we're from the first Adam to want to defy God and be in opposition of him, that we need a supernatural interference come down and rescue us from our DNA and rebirth us into this new identity, this new DNA of a God-centered creature. And that's what the gospel is. That's Jesus.

Speaker 2: 18:45

Jesus is that supernatural interference who comes down and redeems his creation by paying the price for our sin so that we can be reborn. We can be regenerated, as the Bible would say, but reborn into a new body of the spirit. And let's go back to the animal analogy these animals that have a healthy relationship with humans, meaning that they're playful, they're joyful, humans aren't afraid to be around them. That comes from conditioning, from childhood. Now you die to yourself, you die to your sin, nature, which is ingrained into your DNA, and you're reborn into a spirit of God.

Speaker 1: 19:33

You give up what you think you need to be and submit to what you should be.

Speaker 2: 19:40

And then the sanctification creates that new condition of understanding, to where now you're not afraid of God, Now you're not in opposition of God, Now you're a child of God and you're living to be a child of God and you realize all your needs are met and sustained by God and you're joyful in that and you enjoy just being in the presence of God. So that's the beauty of this scenario with animals. When animals are tamed, if they're taken well care of by a human, they bond to that human and they have a healthy relationship with that human. And that comes through the conditioning of the animal. And we can use that as a parallel to talk about our salvation and the gospel of when you die to your sin nature, which you're born with, just like all animals are born with instinct. When you die to that and you're born again in the spirit and you're raised in Christ, you get a new understanding of God and you're not fighting him anymore, You're not in opposition of him.

Speaker 2: 20:43

And the same could be said for animals when they're born into captivity or they're born into a healthy relationship with a human overseer. Their instincts are different, Like they operate and function around humans differently. So it's just another example of God and you know, I think that you can. I think that's when the Bible says no one can look at creation and utterly and be honest and deny God. You can't, because of things as simple as this, as domesticating animals like that reveals God, and you know the intricacies of DNA and the circular.

Speaker 1: 21:27

It can't be an accident, it's not by chance. No, the chance of this happening is so incredibly low that it would almost say there's no chance at all of it being a mistake, which is not.

Speaker 2: 21:42

And on that note, other things were intentional and not accident and they were dinosaurs.

Speaker 1: 21:49

So let's get back on. No, I like. I like it when we get off like off topic, but still on topic, because we're a Christian podcast. So I've got this and I meant to read it when we first started. But it says dinosaurs are some of the most fascinating creatures to ever walk the earth. They have captured our imagination through science movies like Jurassic Park and even children's shows. But when we think about dinosaurs as Christians, one question comes up how do they fit into God's creation? Hey, there you go.

Speaker 1: 22:30

And we kind of talked about this during our old earth, new earth episode. Yeah, and I really do, because of our discussion that episode, I end up leaning. You know I I already had talked about how I'm kind of a mixture of the both, but it's young earth, yeah, it's young earth. And with that young earth theory which states that dinosaurs lived along humans, right, yep, it's that. It's just that they lived alongside humans, and I don't think that they were as crazy, scary as the movies and the fiction make them out to be Like in the sense of like. I don't think that. It's like this jungle, you know biome and everybody's running for their life like cavemen. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 23:22

Something like that coming up at you.

Speaker 1: 23:23

Yeah, I don't think it was like that. I think it's closer to being what we are with animals now the lions and the bears and the tigers and that kind of thing where it's like they had their place, we have our place, and they kind of just left each other alone or they hunted them, one of the two, and it's like we talked about it too. It's like we look at these fossils and we are gauging an entire what they claim to be millions and millions of years of history based off of fossils, off of bones. Yeah, and it's like that just doesn't make sense to me. When you're sitting there about something logically saying, yeah, hey, this thing happened a million years, how can you tell, just because of the dirt, how deep it was? That doesn't tell you anything, really. Yeah, you are basing, going off of your theory, yeah, that this much dirt on top of it equaled millions of years, but there's no proof besides you saying how deep it is.

Speaker 2: 24:29

Yeah, and the big thing for me is, you know we're talking about dinosaurs, but an interchangeable term would be dragon. Yeah, and we kind of talked about that in episode 48. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 24:44

Where the dinosaurs were just that, the term term dragon.

Speaker 2: 24:49

The term dinosaur came up in the 1800s.

Speaker 1: 24:51

Yeah, just like everything else that we're uncovering, right on this little like I don't know what you would want to call it like deep dive christian series. We're currently under where everything?

Speaker 2: 25:03

mormonism, jehovah's Witness, darwinism.

Speaker 1: 25:08

All these things came about in the 1800s, all these cults and everything that we talk about.

Speaker 2: 25:13

That we've talked about so far. There's older stuff, I'm sure, and we won't stop either. Yeah, but yeah. So dragon there's dragon stories virtually across every culture, Right the ancient world.

Speaker 1: 25:29

It's probably one of the only few things that when you do a deep dive into culture that they all have in common, when they write about something right.

Speaker 2: 25:39

Every continent has a dragon story story you from the mesopotamians, egyptians, persians, china, japan, india, greece, rome, the slavic and wet and uh welsh. Mesoamerica, africa and even australia has dragon stories stories, uh high griff, hylographics no hieroglyphs.

Speaker 2: 26:05

There's, uh, there, one that's like a it's a no-brainer in Cambodia, but there's a. There's different artifacts from around the world that depict things that could be interpreted as different depictions of dinosaurs that we've come up with today. And another thing is that I mean Marco Polo. When he went to China, the emperor had a. I think it was a carriage that was pulled by dragons is the way that he worded it. But Marco Polo, when do you think Marco Polo went to China?

Speaker 1: 26:44

I don't know. Let's ask him Marco. I don't know. Let's ask him Marco. I'm not sure. I'm going to say 1658.

Speaker 2: 26:53

Wow, that was much later than I thought you would say it 1271.

Speaker 1: 27:01

Oh, I wasn't In the terms of dinosaurs.

Speaker 2: 27:04

that wasn't very far off In the terms of millions of years.

Speaker 2: 27:07

If there were these, if this was the prices right, I'd have been close enough to win both showcases yeah, yeah, so he, uh, he, yeah, he, he went there, you know, not too long ago, um a long time ago, if you take the young earth uh perspective on history. And you know, a thousand years ago. Well, 800 years ago is not that long, but it is. It is long. When the earth's only 6 000 years old, it's almost a thousand years difference, you know I would argue that it would probably.

Speaker 1: 27:50

I think it's like what. It's actually 12 000 years old. The earth, the earth. Yeah, I think it's six.

Speaker 2: 27:57

I'm gonna double or nothing right now okay, I know that the argument is like. I know that my argument hinges on the genealogies given in Genesis and then the rest of the Bible, and so people will argue those genealogies and come up with a reason why it's not. But the reason I hold on to it is, one, because it's clearly stated in the Bible and two, because every time we have archeological evidence uncovered it supports the Bible in other areas. So you know, the only thing that we've got for old earth is carbon dating, and that's being speculated. So I think that the earth is is quite young in comparison to what everyone else is saying.

Speaker 1: 28:46

Right? Is there really a when we're talking about the age of the earth? Is there really a debate on people who believe younger what the number is?

Speaker 2: 28:59

Yeah, I think that some people will say like between six and 10,000 years, gotcha.

Speaker 1: 29:05

The reason why I say that is because and I believe we talked about it last week, but the age of people were significantly longer.

Speaker 2: 29:16

Yeah, I mean in the Bible it talks about them being older.

Speaker 1: 29:19

So if you're talking about somebody who's going close to 800 years old, you're talking about a very large percentage of the age of the earth. Yeah, you're talking about somebody who, of all foreseeable time, yeah, 800 years old is eight percent of the entire earth or less. If you're talking about 6,000.

Speaker 2: 29:43

Yeah, yeah, and that's the thing is the age it starts to decrease, like right after creation. It kind of starts to go downhill.

Speaker 1: 29:54

I'm more of the camp of like. I do believe it's younger, but the number is higher than 6,000.

Speaker 2: 30:02

I mean I disagree, but okay.

Speaker 1: 30:05

Tell me in the Bible right now what verse that would disprove my statement, yours or my?

Speaker 2: 30:11

statement. Prove me wrong. Oh okay, Genesis 11. This is the genealogies from Adam to.

Speaker 1: 30:20

Abraham. So how many between Adam to Abraham? How many is it in the Bible? I think it's 1,500 to 2,000 years. That is a third of your entire timeframe if you say six.

Speaker 2: 30:36

Yep, because from Abraham to Jesus is another 2,000 years, and then from Jesus to now is 2,000 years.

Speaker 1: 30:45

No 2,025.

Speaker 2: 30:57

Yeah, 2,0. Yeah, 2025, you're right, maybe, maybe, maybe, yeah, no, I mean that that's the way it's. Yeah, I guess plainly read like, if you want to get into the, you know the different, like contextual, cultural differences in the way that they would write things. Yeah, I'm sure I mean, we can talk about it, we can get into that conversation. But the problem is is, when you look at, when you cross, reference the Bible with the Bible, like they're reading it the same way that we'd read it today. Maybe not the exact same, but it's very similar. You know what I mean. Maybe not the exact same, but it's very similar. You know what I mean. Like they're they're not looking at it and saying like, oh well, you know, the bible, uh, was, was? They were just fluffing up how old the person was no, I believe the bible they were like when the bible says this person's this age.

Speaker 1: 31:41

Yeah, I believe that, for sure. Yeah, that that's all I have to say. I like how you paused there, like, and I mean we can.

Speaker 2: 31:51

I can I'll because you know what. We'll probably get into it a little bit when we do episode 52. But I'll bring the diagram of, like the ages.

Speaker 2: 32:01

I'll bring my own diagram, because the one that we looked at last time was incorrect, so let me bring the one I made yeah, I'll bring my own diagram and it shows, like you know, birth and then when they had their next, their their lineage passer, honor, their heir, if you will, and then when they died, and then you can see how it's broken down in the timeline. Great, great.

Speaker 1: 32:26

Now let's get back to dinosaurs yeah, and talking about dinosaurs, let's throw it back to our dinosaur expert littlefoot, with another dinosaur fact did you know a stegosaurus has its brain as a walnut, even though it's like tall and big? Wow.

Speaker 1: 32:47

Can you imagine that? You know what I mean Having this massive, massive body and having a tiny, tiny brain? Personally, I don't have to imagine it because it's true for me, but I don't think that's true. I mean it must have to do with the fact that the size of their body is so large. Right, yeah, because when you're talking about it's like it must be in the design that because their head's so high up, yeah, it's like maybe the they don't actually use their brain for much of anything. Yeah, because it's so. It's designed to be small because, like the same way that, like a woodpecker's brain is cushioned Maybe there's a point because its neck is so long.

Speaker 2: 33:34

You're thinking of a brachiosaurus. A stegosaurus is the one that has the big plates on its back, do you?

Speaker 1: 33:42

got your phone on you. I thought a stegosaurus was the one with the long neck.

Speaker 2: 33:45

I mean they've got somewhat of a long neck, but a stegosaurus was the one with the long neck. I mean they've got somewhat of a long neck, but a stegosaurus is the one with the plates on its back.

Speaker 1: 33:51

Oh, my gosh brachiosaurus is the one with a long neck then explain to me why his brain's so small, john?

Speaker 2: 33:58

I, I don't know. I can say from having chickens. They don't have a very big brain, dang it. They are predictable. So that's what I'm thinking. I just looked at a picture of it.

Speaker 1: 34:12

Yeah, I know, that's what I pictured being a Spinosaurus, though A.

Speaker 2: 34:15

Spinosaurus is the one with a sail on its back that fights the T-Rex in Jurassic Park 3.

Speaker 1: 34:22

Oh, dang Okay. So why is his brain so small then? Maybe because his body's so large.

Speaker 2: 34:29

I mean the depiction of the head is it's proportionally off, yeah, like the head's not that big. And the biggest thing I wanted to talk about with Astegasaurus is there's a hieroglyph in Cambodia. That's a perfect depiction of what we would think Astegasaurus is today. Perfect depiction of what we would think a stegosaurus is today. Because of all the archaeological stuff that we've dug up with fossils and the bones and everything, we're like well, this is what a stegosaurus probably looks like. And then we go to this ancient temple that was created by humans that has a hieroglyph of a stegosaurus on it. Like you got to tell me some the people in cambodia they had to have seen that. There's no way that. They just predicted that. And then we dig up the fossilized remains, you know, a couple of thousand years later, and we're like look, dinosaurs are millions of years removed from humans. It's like well, obviously not, because people were making depictions of them in history and antiquity. So explain that to me. Science, I believe in science, but as far as the brain size.

Speaker 1: 35:41

Well, I had a whole argument ready to go, okay, and you ruined it when you told me I was thinking of the wrong dinosaur, yeah, so I'm a little like like lost for words here are you sure that you put the right dinosaur for the fact? I'm sure I put the right dinosaur okay, because I was reading it and I'm like stegosaurus and putting the facts together, I just didn't have in my mind a correlation to what dinosaur the word stegosaurus references.

Speaker 2: 36:13

Yeah, the stegosaurus is a I don't know man. I mean maybe like you think of, like labor creatures, you know, like ox and cows Meals and donkeys. You know, donkeys are pretty intelligent. I think that ox and like bulls and buffalo and cow, like all the bovines like they're, they're pretty straightforward, straight shooters. I don't know.

Speaker 2: 36:41

I don't know how intelligent they are in the intelligent in the intelligent spectrum, but like that's what I'm off the top of my head. That's what I'm thinking of with a stegosaurus. Like it's a big creature. It's burly. Maybe it was utilized for manual labor, because if it has such a small brain like it, what creatures with smaller brain function tend to be predictable? Like I was talking about with chickens a second ago yeah, chickens are pretty spry so they can evade you pretty easy. However, you can predict exactly what they're going to do. You take a piece of bread, you throw it. They will run right for it. You take about two to three weeks. You can condition a chicken to do things Like I for a while to get the chickens to come to me when I wanted to feed them, I would yodel, and now I can go outside and I can yodel and a portion of all my chickens will just come running because they they've been conditioned to like hey, this sound means food, yeah, and they come.

Speaker 1: 37:40

So so do you think that it's just more of? They just are operating on instinct and that's just how they were created, or maybe they were a food source? I?

Speaker 2: 37:53

I don't know. I mean all of you I mean, obviously it's all speculation, but I think with the size the creature was and the tan, and this is where I'm getting at with the brain sizes, I think it makes it extremely tameable, like it's really easy to predict and then alter, you know what I mean it actually so what it did in the garden of eden.

Speaker 1: 38:17

This dinosaur, specifically, was meant to teal up the land. It just rolled over on its back and kicked backwards to teal the land. Yeah, yeah, that's what it did. That that is, that's what it is. We need a shirt with a stegosaurus and it's just him gardening, it's like, but he's tealing up the land with his spikes on his back. That's funny. Is that the one with also the spike tail?

Speaker 2: 38:40

I think there are depictions of it with spikes on its tail.

Speaker 1: 38:43

yeah, All right. Well, on our T-shirt it has spikes on its tail, and that's what it's actually using to teal up the land. Yeah, there you go, so. Yeah, but yeah, I don't really know why it's important to know that they have the brain the size of a walnut, like how do you— you don't have to know, it's a fun fact, but that's what I'm saying is like how do you?

Speaker 2: 39:04

how do I mean? I guess the size of the skull is how they're predicting that, more than likely.

Speaker 1: 39:11

The cavity within the skull. What if it was the most efficient brain? Ever. Yeah, what if?

Speaker 2: 39:16

what if 100% of that walnut size brain Right?

Speaker 1: 39:19

Like cause, we don't use the full power of our brains, right? It's like what? Like a 5% or something like that.

Speaker 2: 39:26

If we did, we'd be able to manipulate space and matter Right.

Speaker 1: 39:30

Kyle XY. Kyle XY oh my gosh, you brought back a classic there. I remember that show, kyle XY. I remember seeing the posters for that when I was a kid. That was a show I shouldn't have watched when it was coming out. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 39:44

I remember the show commercials. Like when they were releasing the commercials, the big thing was like he doesn't have a belly button. So everyone was like, oh, he's an alien, kyle XY.

Speaker 1: 39:55

No belly button, he's an alien it was so funny when they revealed what he was in that show. It was like oh, that's really not that clever.

Speaker 2: 40:02

Yeah, everyone's like oh, he ends up being like a yeah, like a test tube baby, almost yeah, oh yeah, we're trying to see if we can unlock more of the brain by keeping them in the womb longer how did that show end or did you turn it off after they said he was a test tube baby?

Speaker 2: 40:21

I think I watched later on, after it was not popular anymore. I think I watched all the way through. But you know like eventually, along the way it turns out, there's a girl version of him. Of course there is. She gets out, but they were planned to be a couple.

Speaker 2: 40:37

But kyle falls in love with the girl in the show, the main character girl in the show, whatever like the family's daughter type thing yeah and so but they in the girl, kyle and Kyle Kyle, we're going to call her Kyleette yeah, they end up fighting against the organization that is trying to arrest them. Yeah, and they've figured out along the way, they've figured out how to use all of their brain to the point to where they can make things levitate and they can somewhat fly and stuff, because they're just manipulating. Like it's not memorable is what I'm trying to get at the ending, like there's some things about it, but overall it's not a memorable speaking of rememberable, do you remember what the candy he loved was?

Speaker 1: 41:21

no, for some reason. This is what. The only real, true fact I remember about the show was that he and I think it was because they had a huge brand deal with this candy oh, and it's a candy you can still get today Hershey's Sour Patch Kids.

Speaker 2: 41:36

Oh I feel like that's a popular one for teenagers slash young college people.

Speaker 1: 41:42

Hmm, I don't know what the obsession is Kyle XY, kyle XY, obsession is Kyle XY, kyle XY, kyle XY. And speaking of Kyle XY, this has nothing to do with it. It's another dinosaur fact. Yeah, coming right at you from Littlefoot.

Speaker 3: 41:59

Did you know Triceratops? His horns can be about like three feet long.

Speaker 1: 42:07

Try Ceratops and try again, try, try, try Ceratops. Grow your horn, you will try. Try Ceratops. I mean this one's like pretty cut and dry, right, like we know why its horn is long? It's for self-defense? Probably Not, probably it is. We know why its horn is long? It's for self-defense? Probably not, probably it is. It is for self-defense 100 for self-defense. Yeah, all three feet. I mean imagine like being impaled by a horn that goes through you and it's like pretty much at least half your body height, depending on your height. You know what I mean. Yeah, and I promise I know what a triceratops looks like yeah it's like sarah from the land before time.

Speaker 2: 43:02

Hey, there you go so I was thinking of not the triceratops, but the protoceratops. It doesn't have like a horn, it just has like the plate, no, the like the shield plate headed. Yeah, yeah, so, but you could. You could relate that somewhat to these little figurines found in China, and they're the Hongshan dragon. It looks very similar to a Protoceratops.

Speaker 1: 43:34

So here's the thing I think I want to bring up, because you keep referring to them as dragons and keep doing that, but don't picture them as like a flying creature.

Speaker 2: 43:44

I would say no, we're conditioned to the like how to train your dragon welsh drag yeah, like the european dragons that have wings and fly and and, uh, you know the term dragon, it's just that it's. It's a large lizard, reptilian like creature.

Speaker 1: 44:04

Yeah and like dinosaur just means terrible lizard, if I'm not mistaken right I?

Speaker 2: 44:11

don't know. Let me look that up I'm pretty sure it's just.

Speaker 1: 44:15

It means terrible lizard and it's just essentially references, meaning you're doing a terrible job being a lizard, you're the worst lizard. You are the worst lizard ever uh.

Speaker 2: 44:29

So according to oxford languages dictionary, it says a fossil reptile of the mosaic error and many space species reaching an enormous size, or the section. Second option is a person or a thing that is outdated or has become obsolete because of failure to adapt to changing circumstances.

Speaker 1: 44:51

But that doesn't answer my question of what dinosaur means Like. What does the word mean Not like? The definition, but like it's like a Latin word or some nonsense like that. I'm looking through my notes. I thought I had it.

Speaker 2: 45:07

Yeah, let me try and word this differently, latin.

Speaker 1: 45:11

Meaning of dinosaur.

Speaker 2: 45:16

Riveting content.

Speaker 1: 45:18

We love long pauses in this episode.

Speaker 2: 45:30

Sorry, it's not Latin, it's Greek terms, so deinos meaning terrible or fearfully great, and soros meaning lizard or reptile. Suja, you were right. What, what, what, what, what, what so, oh, what, what, what, what, what so, oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 45:52

Yeah, hold on, let's press both of those at the same time. Okay, ready, three, two, one, oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 46:00

It works. That's awesome, yeah, Okay. So this overview is saying that the term dinosaur does not have a single direct Latin translation, because it was coined in modern Latin by Sir Richard Owen in 1841, deriving from Greek roots. The Greek words are dinos meaning terrible or fearfully great, and soros meaning lizard or reptile.

Speaker 1: 46:28

So do with that as you will Take that knowledge and let everybody know that you now know what dinosaur means.

Speaker 2: 46:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 3: 46:43

No, no, let me means yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no let me, I'm trying to do the same for dragon.

Speaker 2: 46:56

Do you want to know what the first option for my search history is when I type in the word origin for?

Speaker 1: 47:03

my search history is when I type in the word origin. Is dinosaurs, actually dragons or something to that effect. No origin of runescape is the first. Somebody was doing their research for a past episode.

Speaker 2: 47:14

Yeah, okay, so it originated from the Latin draco, meaning huge serpent, which itself comes from the ancient Greek dracon. The Greek term likely derives from the root dirk, meaning to see. Clearly, suggesting the literal sense of the word was something like the one with the deadly gaze. Interesting, yeah, so the the earliest known form is the greek word dracon, which referred to a serpent of huge size or a giant sea fish either, or so neither describes a terrible lizard. Neither describes a supernatural entity. It describes a massive reptilian creature because it says serpent.

Speaker 1: 48:12

Yeah, so, and we know those exist, like even now today.

Speaker 2: 48:18

Yeah, giant snakes Got a six foot long rat snake in the chicken coop.

Speaker 1: 48:22

Yeah, I saw that video. That was crazy. Crazy, man Crazy. It's crazy that you let your kids keep it as a pet as well.

Speaker 2: 48:31

Yeah, it's okay.

Speaker 1: 48:34

What's his name again? Lucifer. You named him Lucifer.

Speaker 2: 48:38

We named him Lou. It's a girl, so we called her Lou. We named her Lucy, lucy, lucy.

Speaker 1: 48:44

Dang Dang.

Speaker 2: 48:45

No, it's somewhere I don't know. I took it out of the coop and carried it away and put it somewhere else, in hopes that Hopefully it was the ground For everyone who's concerned. It's not eating the chickens, it's eating the eggs. So we're just doing a better job of making sure we're getting the eggs before he can get around.

Speaker 1: 49:04

Oh, I thought you said you. I thought you were going to say you killed it, which I was going to say good, no, it's a rat snake. Come at me, Peter.

Speaker 2: 49:13

No, rat snakes are a beneficial snake in my life. Rat snakes and king snakes I try to let them roam around because they deal with the rats and the kings and the kings that try to show up, all these kings that are showing up. They're like slay king. I'm like step back, I've got a king snake.

Speaker 1: 49:32

Dang, that's what Moses did.

Speaker 2: 49:36

He used a king snake to defeat.

Speaker 1: 49:38

Pharaoh yeah, because he was a king. Yeah, he was a king, so he threw the king snake at him. Look at that correlation.

Speaker 2: 49:44

There we go. His rod turned into a king snake and it just.

Speaker 1: 49:47

Well, it's also because the snake was created by the king.

Speaker 2: 49:51

That's right, you're right. I'm not going to argue with you, but yeah, I want to throw that out there. I think that you know we have a depiction of a dragon from China called the Hongshan and it looks like a creative liberties, but it looks like a protoceratops. Yeah, like you wouldn't have to stretch it to see the similarities, right. So you know who knows how long back that that goes. I didn't look into that part of it. But what I'm trying to get at is, if you hold to a young earth, you can still believe in dinosaurs, because we've got we've got evidence from antiquities that supports a young earth and here's another key fact that we like dinosaurs.

Speaker 1: 50:42

As we know it today, the fossils were not discovered until maybe 200 years ago, in the 1800s.

Speaker 2: 50:50

Yeah, so in the way that we know it now, the industrial age, is it puffed up, the pursuit of knowledge camp to the point to where we're at today, to where people with multiple degrees and these different things, they, they, they have this like built-in sense. And even us, you know plebs that are just the common people we have this built-in sense that we're smarter and know more than our ancestors from long ago. And so, you know, they saw one little thing and they hyped it up to this massive mythical anomaly and in reality it was something simple, reality was something simple. And then we come across this massive mythical anomaly, like the bones of a triceratops or the bones of a tyrannosaurus rex, and we say there's no possible way that this lived alongside humanity. It has to be millions of years old and when extinct, before humanity was even developing.

Speaker 1: 52:05

All because we've never seen it, because the person saying that, I mean.

Speaker 2: 52:10

Yeah, I mean there's different, and here's where it comes around to. There's different arguments that check out, like you know, as an argument. But the reality is there's no rock solid proof to say that dinosaurs lived millions of years before humanity. And the same could be said about the young earth theory. There's no rock solid evidence that's undeniable, because no one lives 6 000 years to 6 million years ago. You know what I mean. Like we weren't there, right? So we can't say one way or the other.

Speaker 2: 52:52

But you cannot ignore the evidence for the young earth and just take the evidence for old earth as fact, like there's stuff out there that supports the idea of dinosaurs or, more understood, dragons, living in the same time as humanity, because we've got hieroglyphs, we've got drawing depictions, we've got statues, all these things that are creating creatures that share characteristics with what we're digging up and saying, oh, this is what the Protoceratops looked like and it's this million years old and it's like, well, but what if it's the Hong Shen from China and it's only 2,000 years old? Yeah, you know, like it, or I guess not 2,000, I mean you know a little bit longer. But you know, like it, or I guess not 2000?

Speaker 1: 53:43

I mean you know a little bit longer, but you know, I don't know, don't, don't get too close to 6000, because that's how old the earth is yeah, yeah, but that's what I'm.

Speaker 2: 53:53

That's what I'm getting at is that?

Speaker 1: 53:55

our our perception of time is so wacky, right, because we look back and we act like 18-whatever the 1800s wasn't that long ago. When we're talking about things in history, yeah, but then talk about the 90s being so long ago. So it's so interesting how we just correlate that and kind of contradict ourselves when we're talking about certain things, and it's always to add legitimacy to our points of whatever we're talking about in that moment. Yeah, it's like, oh yeah, the earth was is 45 million years old, yeah, and then in the 1800s it wasn't that long, it was only 100 years ago, yeah, but then, man, the 1990s, that was so long ago. You know what I mean? Yeah, it was, man, my dad's 35, he's ancient, you know? Yeah, it's stuff like that. It's just like we as people only hang on to the things or exaggerate or, yeah, not exaggerate, but add more emphasis to points when it benefits us.

Speaker 2: 55:13

Yeah, and I'll make the. I made this statement for last for episode 48, when we talked about old earth, young earth. For episode 48, when we talked about old earth, young earth. But no one had a problem with the earth only being 6 000 years old up until darwinism. Who was who presented, amongst other? You know, scholarly people were all speculating, but he presented an option for natural selection which would suggest an old earth timeline. But it was a theory and the theory still hasn't been fully proven and flushed out, and that was 200 years ago, yeah, and we are, but now it's every and we're, and we're hanging on to it like it's the gospel.

Speaker 1: 56:00

Well what? Or?

Speaker 2: 56:01

a lot of people are yeah, what's driving it forward is the secular, is secularism. It's like we need to separate God from science, even though the roots of science were in God. Like all these guys that were the fathers of science before the 1800s, they're all Christians and they were trying to understand this beautiful creation that God made and they wanted to get a deeper understanding of it. And they were trying to understand this beautiful creation that God made and they wanted to get a deeper understanding of it, and so they pursued science to reveal the glories of God. And then we get into the industrial age and everyone's like well, we don't really want to make God the focus, like, we just want to pursue knowledge, and the pursuit of knowledge is what has tried to divorce god from creation.

Speaker 2: 56:45

To where the point where we're at now, where it's like people are trying to say no, the facts are, the earth is old and dinosaurs lived millions of years before humans ever existed on earth, and natural selection is fact and that's what people are holding to and, to be honest, it's it's starting to die out.

Speaker 2: 57:06

Yeah, as the scientific method is used unbiasedly by other people, there's a growth of young earth people in the science realm that are saying like yeah, no, it seems like like there's evidence to support a young earth and the coexistence of dinosaurs and humans. It seems like it's a possibility. So, yeah, man, it just seems like mankind makes all this stuff up to try and discount the Bible. And then we find more evidence as we search our history, and the evidence does not oppose the Bible, it supports it. And I think that's what's going to happen with science. I think that as they dig more and as they search more into antiquity, they're going to find that the Bible says that dinosaurs were around, or dinosaur-like creatures were around when humanity was around. You know, job talks about the behemoth and the Leviathan.

Speaker 1: 58:13

I have that in my notes, talking about the behemoth and the Leviathan in there. I mean we don't have to do a deep dive, but yeah, I mean they're dinosaurs.

Speaker 2: 58:24

And the Bible refers to Satan as the dragon, it refers to him as a serpent, but it also refers to him as the dragon and the. And you know like it's not just creating a new term, yeah, like the Bible is using an existing term to try and explain what Satan will be like, and he's using something that everyone understood yeah, massive serpent yeah, because I mean that anytime we are describing satan, it's always as a serpent, right, correct?

Speaker 2: 58:58

as far as like a physical, like representation, it tends to be the serpent. There's other demonic forces that are depicted in other ways, like the goat demon. You know, azazel, that's depicted as a humanoid goat, and Molech, you know, that is like a half cow, half human deal. There's all kinds of things Mermaids, mermaids no, I'm kidding. There's all kinds of things Mermaids, mermaids no, I'm kidding. No, it is Dagon. Dagon of the Philistines was a half fish, half man. Jeez. So merman, merman, yeah, neptune, if you will.

Speaker 1: 59:37

Or Aquaman.

Speaker 2: 59:39

No, because he doesn't have a fish lower half Shut up, jimmy, shit him. No, because he doesn't have. He doesn't have a fish lower half, shut up, shit him.

Speaker 1: 59:46

but uh, yeah, there's, there's dinosaurs in the bible, dragons, if you will yeah, we just probably a lot of people kind of just skim over it and don't pay much attention, like, oh, behemoth, leviathan, it's a parable, or it's not referencing something that is real, or or whatever. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 1:00:09

Well, and like I'm just saying people in general an example people that try to discard those descriptions in the bible. So, like the behemoth, people try to say well, no, it wasn't it was. They were probably talking about a hippopotamus and it's like so many behemoths and it's like okay, you know, I can see where you're coming from, but it says that its tail is like a cedar tree of Lebanon, which is a massive tree. So it's, either it's a brachiosaurus.

Speaker 1: 1:00:41

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:00:42

Or it's an abnormally long-tailed hippo.

Speaker 1: 1:00:46

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:00:49

Which one is it? It's a dinosaur. So, yeah, it seems that it would be talking about a dinosaur and the audience that Job is being written to would have an understanding of what a brachiosaurus is, Because it uses the term behemoth and explains what it looks like. And it's like do you know why it looks the way it is or why it does what it is? Do you know? And the point is, job doesn't know, but he knows what it is. Yeah, you know so, and it's the same for the leviathan they don't know the deeps and the history and the point of origin. They don't know any of that God does, because God created the Leviathan, but they know what the Leviathan is.

Speaker 2: 1:01:31

You know. So yeah, that's my argument, and we can get out of the Bible and get into some other historical stuff. I mean, there's a hieroglyph of a stegosaurus in Cambodia. There's different depictions on ancient art pieces of brachiosaurusnet net, it's com. It's com. The hung shin is a protoceratops, you know, you can find little statues of that. So I would say that there's history for dinosaurs when mankind is a long dinosaur. All right, do we have any more facts from the Littlefoot?

Speaker 1: 1:02:17

Yeah, I think what we've got time for one more fact from Littlefoot over here? Let's do it All right. What is your more fact from Littlefoot over here? Let's do it All right. What is your last fact? Littlefoot?

Speaker 3: 1:02:27

Some dinosaurs have feathers because like it helps them like glide and fly, so they can catch their food.

Speaker 2: 1:02:38

So I don't know where I stand on this. So I don't know where I stand on this.

Speaker 1: 1:02:44

I think it's like you see it, where it's like the fossil right, where they have found that they have the ground around the fossil right, which I guess in turn ends up with a fossil has indentions of feathers around it, like in huge plumages around it. I think it's possible. I mean, I don't think it doesn't necessarily mean one way or another, yeah, or change really, like we've already talked about how the dinosaurs are not what we have been taught in schools. You know what I mean. We're wrong about that.

Speaker 2: 1:03:28

I don't. Well, I've never heard that part of it where there's indentions of feathers in the fossilized portions. What little bit I know. My understanding was like feathers, it's hard for feathers to fossilize because of the material that they're made out of and because they're hollow, like I think that was another thing like birds, it's hard for birds to fossilize because their bones are hollow and, uh, the feather material of the feathers. It wouldn't really. It wouldn't work is basically my understanding. So, yeah, that's just what I've come to understand. I could be totally wrong on that, but I think some people use it.

Speaker 1: 1:04:14

Describe that oh, you're saying that those if you look through like the like on the outside, you can see the outline of of the feather and kind of plumages-ness of the dinosaur. Yeah, so it's not on the fossil Of the feathered dinosaur.

Speaker 2: 1:04:33

But what kind of dinosaur?

Speaker 1: 1:04:35

That is a velociraptor, I don't know. I don't know. I just tried to quickly find an example of a dinosaur having feathers around it. It's obviously not one that is like like that one that has that flies. Yeah, I don't know. It's probably more than likely a um. In the same way we have now is like some probably had fur and some probably had scales and some had feathers. You know what I mean. Yeah, I don't know. I don't think that all of them did have just feathers.

Speaker 2: 1:05:04

Well, the one thing that I would say, approaching it from like documentation from history, is, it would seem, when we're talking about this dragon creature, the characteristic that it predominantly shares is it is serpent-like or massive reptile. So that's the only thing that's hanging me up on feathers and fur as the exterior cladding.

Speaker 1: 1:05:35

Just because our lizards now do not have feathers doesn't necessarily mean that they did not.

Speaker 2: 1:05:44

And if you're approaching it from a older perspective, I can understand that.

Speaker 1: 1:05:50

Well, let me put it more like this then Like, the lizards we have nowadays are all, in comparison, very tiny and the closest thing we have in size and also these lizards, all the lizards, are not really related to one another. Right, they're all you know. Reptiles, yes, but they're all different. The size does not, you know, it's not all the same lizard in different sizes, it's all different breeds of reptiles. Yeah, the largest one we have is the Komodo dragon, and that's still, I would say that now a crocodile gets bigger than a Komodo dragon.

Speaker 2: 1:06:31

But that's I mean they're documented to up to like, I think, 17 to 12.

Speaker 1: 1:06:35

Is that really the same thing, though A crocodile's a reptile?

Speaker 2: 1:06:38

I mean, I know they're reptiles, but they're not really lizards though I mean it's an aquatic reptile, I mean I don't know what else to classify it as you know True.

Speaker 1: 1:06:50

So then we have our crocodiles, alligators, and then the Komodo dragons right.

Speaker 2: 1:06:55

Yeah, I guess you could say the Komodo dragon is the largest landlocked reptile Right.

Speaker 1: 1:07:02

And obviously something that's aquatic is going to be something different. My point being is you can't correlate that to size and say that just because our evidence that we have on land reptiles are these few examples that are small, and then the only one that is even remotely close to the size of what an ancient, quote-unquote ancient dinosaur would be is really not comparable to size of what we have dinosaurs showing being with their fossils. So the size could play a part into the feathers.

Speaker 2: 1:07:45

And again, maybe not all of them had feathers. Anyways, I would make the argument that dinosaurs, like they're these massive reptilian creatures, they would fall into the category of megafauna, because we do. I mean, we talk about other, we talk about large mammals, right, every mammal that we have today, it almost seems like it has a massive predecessor. You know, like we've got the giant the mammoth, a giant woolly elephant. We've got the saber-toothed tiger, a massive north american feline with large canines. Yeah, you know like there's these.

Speaker 1: 1:08:22

And then you know, like the buffalo wolf, like those were bigger than the average and maybe my point is supported that maybe some of them, maybe one of the you know lizard form of an ancient creature, right, yeah, had feathers, and I know that we argue that, oh, oh, this, only this one lived in this time period and this one lived in this period. You know what I mean. Do you believe that, like in the different time periods of dinosaurs? Because I would more argue that they probably all lived around the same time and they just lived in different regions.

Speaker 2: 1:09:00

Yeah, what I would say is, I think, uh, ancient peoples, if they saw a massive creature with feathers, it would fall in the category of birds, and if they saw a massive creature with scale or skin, it would fall into the category of reptile or serpent, and then if they saw a massive haired or wooled creature, it would fall into the classification of mammal. Sure, but I guess, to answer your question is, it could be that different dinosaurs I think they all kind of were around but they died out at different times.

Speaker 1: 1:09:44

I would argue that they all died out at the exact same time. I don't think so. You don't think they all died out during the flood. No, you think that there was some dinosaurs on the ark.

Speaker 2: 1:09:55

Well, but then what do we do with the argument of Marco Polo documenting dinosaurs in China? What do we do with the argument of the classic tale of medieval knights going out and fighting these massive serpents?

Speaker 1: 1:10:07

I'll tell you what we do with them.

Speaker 2: 1:10:08

What do we do with the North? I'll tell you they're all wrong. What do we do with the North American tribal tales of these massive winged creatures like serpents flying overhead? What do we do with the Australian indigenous people and the giant reptilian creatures that they see that are obviously not crocodiles, because they don't call them that? You know, there's these different things where people are around post-flood and they're seeing and they're documenting through stories, be it oral tradition or it's written down or it's hieroglyphically documented post-flood. What do we do with that?

Speaker 1: 1:10:47

So you're saying that instead of them dying all out during the flood, which could explain okay, them dying out during the flood could explain a lot of the fossils and then the ones that were on the ark did live on. That could explain that and then, over time, that species did die out.

Speaker 2: 1:11:11

Yeah, I think that there's a theory about post-flood I don't remember exactly when, but post-flood there's an ice age-like event. But post-flood there's an ice age-like event, so it's not like every inch of landmass is covered in ice and everything dies off. It's that globally, every geographical location drops a couple of degrees, causing the environment to freeze up and change livability. So things that live further north lost naturally occurring food sources and either died out from it in a mass extinction level or migrated south to survive. And if they migrate, then they're having to deal with the animals that are already there and there's a battle for survival. So I think that that's a theory that's presented that could make sense of why post-flood these megafaunas don't survive throughout history.

Speaker 2: 1:12:19

History is one. It would seem that a lot of them could have died out through this somewhat ice age like event. And then two, when it comes to survival, humanity and other creatures they're going to hunt the thing with the most meat on it to survive. So I mean, we don't even have to go that far into history to look at that. Like the native Americans they would hunt, like the Sioux and the Comanche. You know, they would hunt the Buffalo and it became like a sacred thing to them and they looked at the Buffalo as like their source of life and it's because it was the bigger, it was the biggest creature that they had. They utilized every bit of it to survive.

Speaker 2: 1:13:08

And it's like, well, why wouldn't they just save the buffalo and hunt other things like deer and you know, and the elk and stuff? It's like, well, they did hunt that, but they focused on the buffalo because the buffalo was the biggest and it would yield the most outcome. You know, I mean, we think that way today, like why am I going to invest the same amount of effort and get less of an outcome when I can just go and get the maximum outcome? So I think that plays into extinction of different creatures, like massive reptilian creatures and massive megafauna mammals and massive birds and stuff. It's a mixture of just historical god events, like an ice age or something like that, with the combination of humanity's fight to survive by hunting to extinction creatures. So that's what I would say about dinosaurs and why we're not really seeing them a whole lot today is because not because they're A whole lot. Who's seen them at all? Well, that's the Thunderbird. There's different African people in the Congo that are allegedly seeing dinosaur like creatures.

Speaker 2: 1:14:33

Hmm, people in like the congo, that are allegedly seeing dinosaur-like creatures. Maybe these cryptids like nessie and the ones that they're seeing there are, uh, just that, cryptids. Yeah, they're real. Yeah, so I mean, it's all. I mean no one's producing a corpse, so there's, there's no document, there's no way to you know, there's no way to say yes, so there's no way to say yes, but there's no way to say no.

Speaker 1: 1:14:48

So final thoughts.

Speaker 2: 1:14:51

No, that's pretty much it. I mean, like I said, I think that ancient peoples are not dumb like they tend to be portrayed as Well.

Speaker 1: 1:14:59

Everybody considers them to be like cavemen. You know what I mean, and I don't think that we really had cavemen like they think we had. Yeah, I was just one, really dumb guy, I think.

Speaker 2: 1:15:11

As society develops, discoveries are made, and when societies collapse, common practices are lost. And so not to say that everything that's discovered is lost to time when a society collapses, but some technologies are, and so we're at the point where we're at now because of all the discoveries that we've made that have survived throughout history and everything that we've done from the industrial age, like if, um, america and the European Union are, yeah, if the like first world nations just all randomly collapsed, some of the technologies that we have developed and discovered would be lost to time.

Speaker 1: 1:15:59

So you know, old people, ancient peoples, are not dumb, they're just different I think that we like to downplay the intelligence of the past yeah because we like to think that, because we are in the current time, we are the future, that we are smarter, that we are, as people, progressing, and I don't think that's always the case, yeah, so yep, I agree, but that's my argument for dinosaurs.

Speaker 2: 1:16:29

I think that they are documented throughout history from ancient cultures and our ancestors and that people will argue that like, oh, they were just superstitious ancient people groups who lived by voodoo weird spiritualization of everything, and didn't have common and practical minds with critical thinking.

Speaker 1: 1:16:52

It's like oh, shut up, get out of here, get out of here, come on so I've got one last thing to read and we'll close out this beautiful episode sweet. So dinosaurs are not just prehistoric monsters. They are a reminder of God's creativity and the vastness of his creation. Heck yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:17:13

They challenge us to wrestle with questions of science and faith, but they do not take away from the truth of scripture. Heck yeah. Psalms 104, verse 28, says how many are your works, lord In wisdom, you made them all. The earth is full of your creatures. No matter your perspective, dinosaurs are part of God's story and remind us of his power, majesty and wisdom Perfection. Perfection.

Speaker 1: 1:17:44

Perfection. There you go. So thank you for joining us on this episode 51 of the Saints that Serve podcast. That's right. Christ is Lord and the kingdom is now. We are the Saints that Serve. Good job, good job, good job.