Speaker 2: 0:02

Welcome to the Saints that Serve, podcast where, each week, your hosts dive into the crossroads of faith, culture and the unknown.

Speaker 1: 0:15

Christ is Lord and the kingdom is now. We are the Saints that Serve. Hey everybody. Welcome to the Saints that Serve podcast. Oh yeah, I'm your host, jrs Do it, lady. Welcome to the Saints to Surf podcast. Oh yeah, I'm your host, jairus. Do it, lady, and with me is my host, co-host John. Huh, and talk to the people, john. Okay, hey, it's me.

Speaker 2: 1:01

It's John.

Speaker 1: 1:02

Yeah, this is how we're going to talk now for the entire episode 49 of the Saints to Serve podcast. Episode 49, baby, you got to do the high voice, high pitch voice.

Speaker 2: 1:16

I don't want to you don't want to.

Speaker 1: 1:19

I don't want to. I don't want to do it.

Speaker 2: 1:23

This is weird.

Speaker 1: 1:24

This is the worst intro of the Saints to Serve podcast I've ever heard.

Speaker 2: 1:27

Yeah, Wait a minute. You put those words in my mouth.

Speaker 1: 1:34

So yeah, episode 49 of the Saints to Serve podcast. How are you feeling? 49 episodes old.

Speaker 2: 1:41

I'm feeling pretty great Bob.

Speaker 1: 1:46

Why is it that the name Bob makes kids laugh?

Speaker 2: 1:49

I don't know, you brought that up earlier, didn't you? No, your wife did.

Speaker 1: 1:53

That's why I'm asking it.

Speaker 2: 1:55

Oh, I heard somebody in the background saying it and I was like I don't know, I can't think about that right now.

Speaker 1: 2:01

I'm too focused on my new video game system.

Speaker 1: 2:05

Yeah, that's a big thing that took up my brain space today was getting this new xbox, new old, old, new xbox set up for these chitlins which is crazy because we kind of talked about it and it's like right now because of, like, the shortage of parts and and manufacturing cost on these systems, like the xbox series x, which is the one that you got, yeah, is incredibly hard to find because they're not making them right now. So the selling price on a used one typically has skyrocketed past what the original purchase price of them is. Yeah, currently and you found it on Facebook Marketplace I'm not calling out the actual number you told me, but it is significantly less than the current used asking price.

Speaker 2: 2:54

Yes, it is quite, quite, quite cheaper, thankfully because I destroyed our other one by accident. Yeah, you tried to fix it, I tried to fix it but ended up not fixing it.

Speaker 1: 3:08

Yeah, your wife's going to listen to this episode and be like I hate Jairus for this, but I'm going to make a joke. Okay, you're going to turn it on one day and just a bunch of cockroaches come pouring out of it. Gross, don't say that. Or a rat's inside of it, rats that. Or a rat's inside of it, rats, just one.

Speaker 2: 3:24

Just one, or a rat is inside of it well, one rat or multiple mice, ratatouille, ratatouille.

Speaker 1: 3:30

He's in there pulling the strings, controlling the xbox.

Speaker 2: 3:34

The kids aren't actually playing the game here.

Speaker 1: 3:35

No they're not. He's just like crossing the wires perfectly. So an image is coming up on the screen Ratatouille of the Xbox.

Speaker 2: 3:48

Yeah, so that was our thing. Yeah, do we got any?

Speaker 1: 3:58

announcements Announcements. I don't know. You tell me, do we have any announcements?

Speaker 2: 4:01

Check, be on the lookout for episode 52. That's the big one. Something big is coming up soon. Tell me, do we have any announcements? Check, be on the lookout for episode 52. We're gonna be that's. That's the big one, something big that's coming up soon, and uh it's only at this point, three weeks away, episode 52, yeah, and uh what's the date on that? It's gonna be september uh while he's looking that up every friday 15th. Oh there we go. September 15th, episode 52. Make sure you check it out that is our one year anniversary.

Speaker 1: 4:30

We have been, in three weeks, been doing this podcast for one whole circle around the sun on this little planet that's right, that's us celebrating putting out an episode every mond, almost One. Except one. We did make it every Monday except for one, but we made up that one episode that we missed with tons of bonus content that we have. That, if you want to go see, go look at it as you listen.

Speaker 2: 4:58

Yeah, I mean there are a couple of live streams.

Speaker 1: 5:01

There are a couple of live streams.

Speaker 2: 5:03

So feel free to do that too. But yeah, outside of that, we pray for you every single Friday, so if you need prayer for anything, reach out to us. There's a messaging link at the bottom of the description for this show. There's also an email. You can email us at saintsthatserveatgmailcom.

Speaker 1: 5:21

I'm going to call you out.

Speaker 2: 5:23

Okay.

Speaker 1: 5:23

Because I never notice it when you do it, but when I'm editing I notice it. Okay, you always refer to this as the show. It's the episode you always say show.

Speaker 2: 5:38

At the bottom of the description for the episode, there's a link. It'll take you to direct messaging and you can message us that way. Email us at saints that serve at gmailcom, or you can reach out to us on social media. We're all there and that's all I've got as far as announcements. Do you have anything that you want to announce?

Speaker 1: 5:59

No, nothing on your heart. I got to get a little bit Something off my heart Is what you're saying it's free now, we're good to go. Oh man, anyways, alright. Yes, I had that fart In my heart.

Speaker 2: 6:15

Just get the fart Out of your heart, guys.

Speaker 1: 6:17

You heard it here From the saints that serve, from the saint boys, words of wisdom Get that fart Out of your heart, that's right, yeah, boy. Get that fart out of your heart, that's right, yeah, boy. Get that fart out of your heart so you can make room for Jesus, yeah.

Speaker 2: 6:31

Okay, yeah, that's all we got for announcements, so we're going to go into our main topic tonight, which I'm not as cut and dry as, like Christianity verse Jehovah Witness or Christianity versus Mormonism.

Speaker 1: 6:46

Like this one, we do have to dig a little bit through the weeds, because, because it's just to some degree it's really just opinion and, based off what I've kind of researched, it doesn't fully. There's probably some aspects that do, but it doesn't really fully get in the way of God.

Speaker 2: 7:11

It's not a salvific issue.

Speaker 1: 7:14

So it doesn't.

Speaker 2: 7:15

your salvation doesn't hinge on it. That neither camp can say without a doubt that it's irrefutable like this is how it is, because the evidence would have to be from history and we're not in the past. We're not in history.

Speaker 1: 7:47

So everything that we look at as evidence, let's just get into it and then'll talk about it. So, tyler, this is your transition.

Speaker 2: 7:51

We're talking today about creationism. Old verse young creationism that's right.

Speaker 1: 7:56

So or young earth or old earth young earth or old earth more specifically.

Speaker 2: 8:03

but yeah, uh, some of the stuff I was doing because I was trying to listen to the argument from an old earth creationist and what they would use as an argument and, um, you know, when they're approaching it from the some of it is kind of like in the weeds as far as evidence to support it. Like one of the arguments that I heard was you look at the ancestry of the genealogy in Genesis, in genesis, and it talks about people being super old, getting like up to 900 years old or whatever, but then it takes the argument that abraham's father, father abraham, is like lives to like 200 and something, and he has.

Speaker 2: 9:05

I got to find the genealogy and he has Abraham at like 100 something. And then you go to the story of Abraham, where God comes and says he's going to have a son. Abraham says like, well, I'm 100 years old and my wife's coming up on 100. Can someone so old have a baby? And the argument that they make is see if—. So whose argument is this? This is an old Earth creationist saying that you can't rely on the genealogy in the text to show how old the Earth is, because there's an argument that, basically, if Abraham thought 100 years was too old to have a kid, then how could his dad, at 100 plus years, have Abraham?

Speaker 1: 9:54

Well, isn't there a very specific Bible verse where they and maybe I'm wrong, but they say this is where I'm shortening the life of people. God says that?

Speaker 2: 10:05

Yeah, he says that after the flood that mankind's become too wicked, and he shortens the lifespan to 120 years. But the argument so Abraham I guess his dad, terah, lives to a hundred. Hold on, I'm looking at a graph, graph Graph. So I guess this graph says that Tara, abraham's dad had Abraham at 130 years, if I'm reading that correctly. I don't know where they got that, though.

Speaker 2: 10:49

So, calculating the date of creation, how do we arrive at a date of 4,400 BC for the creation of the world? Genealogies in Genesis 5 and 11 follow the pattern, and father lived years and begot son. Adding up those years shows that Abraham was born about 2,000 years after God created Adam. We align Abraham's life with our calendar based on archaeological evidence. Archbishop James Usher is well known for applying several historical and biblical clues to align these dates with the Julian calendar, while many have disputed or revised the calculations. Yeah, this graph is on vizbible. It's a genealogies calculator graph and it's genesis timeline from adam to abraham. And yeah, I'm gonna try and look up something real quick while you talk all right.

Speaker 1: 11:54

so while you do that, what is young earth theory versus older theory? Right, we're going to talk about in this episode might as well you know, yeah, what is, what is it?

Speaker 2: 12:04

What is?

Speaker 1: 12:05

it. What is it so? Young earth theory essentially, it says that the earth is somewhere between six to 10,000 years old, and then, for older, they say that the earth is about four and a half billion years old. In the universe is about 13.5 billion years old, and the universe is about 13.8 billion years old. And so young Earth calculates theirs based off of the genealogies in Genesis, and then old Earth calculates theirs with astrology and geology.

Speaker 2: 12:43

I'm having a hard time with this. So the calculator app we were just looking at said that Abraham's dad, Terah, lived 130 years and then begot Abraham and then lived 75 years after that. But when I go to the genealogy in Genesis 11, it says that Genesis 11, 26, and Terah lived 70 years and begot Abraham, Nahor and Haran.

Speaker 1: 13:15

So somebody's lying, I was going to say let's go off the Bible.

Speaker 2: 13:20

Let's go off what the Bible says, the.

Speaker 1: 13:23

B-I-B-L-E. That's the book for me Because it states the age correctly B-I-B-L-E oh yeah, so, yeah, so we're going to get into it more. But something that is interesting is that Young Earth believes that dinosaurs lived among people pre-flood and then old Earth believes that they lived millions of years before humans.

Speaker 2: 13:57

Yes, millions of years in different eras.

Speaker 1: 14:01

But apparently everybody believes that era is the jurassic era there was a couple of different dinosaur eras.

Speaker 2: 14:10

It's just.

Speaker 2: 14:11

Jurassic is made popular because the films we had a, we had a park and a world I know that I heard the argument like dating for the world, like the basic, like carbon dating. Carbon dating yes, I guess specifically carbon-14 is what they're looking for is based off of how old the paleontologist discoveries of dinosaur bones are right, mm-hmm. And then it's like okay, okay, well, how do we know how old those are? And then the answer to that is well, we look at what the carbon dating for the bones are to determine how old they are. But that's that's. My thing is like okay, so you're using the bones to figure out how to accurately use quote, unquote accurately, accurately use carbon dating. But then you know how old the bones are because you use carbon dating to date them, right.

Speaker 2: 15:13

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how it was explained to me, and to me that doesn't make sense. Like how do you know how the bones are? Well, we use carbon dating to date them, okay. How do you know how old the bones are? Well, we use carbon dating to date them, okay. How do you know carbon dating is accurate? Well, because of how old the bones are. That were.

Speaker 1: 15:32

So it's just circular thinking to explain something that's inaccurate.

Speaker 2: 15:35

I, that's how. Once again, I don't. I'm not by any means a smart person, so, but that's how it was explained to me, and so I was like I don't know. That just doesn't seem right to me, yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:48

I mean. But yeah, based off what you're saying, it sounds like it's circular thinking. It's just like you keep going around in them circles thinking yeah, so a core belief of young earth is reading Genesis literally safeguards biblical authority, while the core belief of old earth is science reveals God's creative majesty without undermining scripture. So I think that's something to. It's important to state again that either way right or wrong on both sides it's not like either side is trying to undermine God's authority. Yeah, it's. Both sides might not, you know, agree with one another, but at the end of the day, they both are, they're both christians and it's just a viewpoint that doesn't, at the end of the day, affect your salvation yes, I would like to bring up, though that and you guys are gonna it's gonna be very obvious that I'm a young earth guy.

Speaker 2: 17:00

But none of us, and even secular scientists that are 100% on board with evolution and old earth and do not look to the Bible as an authority in any way. They're not Christian, they're just secular. Whatever the science of evolution and the dating of our creation of the universe, of life on our planet, no one cracked the code until the 1800s. They will acknowledge that. So it wasn't until around the time of Charles Darwin. He's the one who popularized it. There was a couple other guys. Evolution, the one who popularized it. There was a couple other guys.

Speaker 2: 17:44

Evolution yeah, that thought of this idea of evolution and darwin's theory of natural selection is what they were like. This is the home run, this is what knocks out of the park. This explains how evolution works and this explains how old the universe is, and this, that and the other. And now it's like to a point now to where it's like, if you don't believe or it was for a while if you don't believe in evolution, then you're an ignorant buffoon who does not know science, even though, like, the scientific method is not a means to understand how the universe is. The scientific method is to test something Right. You collect evidence, you test the evidence against your hypothesis and you come to a conclusion. You can't do that with the beginning of time because you can't replicate it.

Speaker 1: 18:50

Yeah, you can't replicate creation.

Speaker 2: 18:51

You can't replicate the start of existence. Well, at least as far as I know, no one has been able to do it.

Speaker 1: 19:01

Unless they have. We haven't seen it yet. Yeah, I don't even know how to explain that joke. You know what I mean. Like I can't take that joke any further.

Speaker 2: 19:11

Yeah, because it's nonsensical but that's one thing that I did want to bring up is that the only reason that we're having this argument about how old the earth is is is it the young earth 6,000 years age, or is it super old is because of a secular sign. Well, maybe he wasn't secular, maybe he did.

Speaker 1: 19:35

Or somebody outside of Religion.

Speaker 2: 19:38

Yeah, he was given an alternative to the religious understanding of the age of the earth.

Speaker 1: 19:46

Was his intentions to try to disprove?

Speaker 2: 19:51

Christianity. I don't know what his intentions were.

Speaker 1: 19:56

I didn't know if he specifically said you know my intentions were here, but you know.

Speaker 2: 20:00

Yeah, no, my intentions were here, but you know, yeah, no, I know that he did a lot of research in the Galapagos Islands and was looking at the different, Like this turtle looks this or, sorry, this tortoise looks this way and it's in this environment. And then we hop the next island over and this tortoise looks a different way and but they're from the same genealogical family but because of their environment they look different.

Speaker 1: 20:31

Yeah, and like, let me get on that idea of evolution and Dar um, okay, I believe that Dar uh, evolution and Darwinism is completely two different things. Right, when you're just talking logically? Yeah, Because it's like, yes, logically speaking, something will adapt and evolve to their environment. That's just common logic, right? Yeah, but what Charles Darwin implies is that we there is no God and that we were not created. We just evolved from monkeys and that kind of thing. And it's like I don't know where we got common logic and we removed it because evolution is added to that. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2: 21:20

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:21

Like yes, evolution is just downright, it. It's logically. Something adapts to its environment and over time, its dna and its gene and gene in genealogy, genealogy, genealogy will adapt and change to its environment, right, like, just for an example, a bird that needs to get its beak into a hole to get a bug will, over time, down the line of its ancestry, will eventually grow a longer beak. That does not mean God doesn't exist. In fact, I feel like it proves God's existence even more to some degree. Just the beauty of that moment of something changing. You know what I mean. If something was created by accident and didn't have a plan, I feel like that wouldn't be happening at all. You know what I mean. Something would just die. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2: 22:14

Not its entire species adapts to continue, thriving, to continue thriving Well and my understanding, like here's the deal, like evolution there's some that talk about that, I guess the microevolution, where a certain animal will adapt over time to its environment to survive, and then there are the other. The other extreme side is like over millions of years, this whale will slowly come ashore and be in eventually. Over millions of years it's evolved into a coyote.

Speaker 1: 22:54

That I don't believe, but I do believe that it is possible that something did come out of the water you know that evolution thing and then slowly adapted to be on land. That again does not reflect how us, as people, have changed over time, and does not say that God doesn't exist, though, yeah see, I'm not in that camp.

Speaker 2: 23:17

I'm not in that camp. I'm in the camp of, I think, that things with intentional intervention you can alter certain things. Characteristics about animals, meaning like dogs, are the best example. You can breed certain dogs now to each other and get desirable traits from that dog, but you couldn't take a dog, at least from my understanding. You can't take a dog and throw out in this area and then in a couple of generations it's starting to look more cat-like because that's what it needed to do to survive. Like that's not happening, true, within a couple of generations it will still be a dog. It will operate as a dog will. It will have all the characteristics of a dog. The only thing that will have changed is maybe the color of the fur, or maybe the size of the tail or the ears or the snout length, like everything about its genetic makeup will remain a dog.

Speaker 2: 24:19

You know its genetic makeup isn't changing. I'm saying that like I know genetic makeup, right, I don't.

Speaker 1: 24:27

But when I say that something crawled out of the ocean, right, and now it's something different, I'm not implying that a whale crawled out and then it turned into a coyote, like. It's still going to be something that is, you know, water-based. But it's possible that and here's a great to me an example that something that was strictly something in the ocean over time came out, and we see it today with tadpoles and frogs. Yeah, so something that was water-based does end up coming out. So it it's not unheard of that something not necessarily a whale, but something that was in the ocean did eventually come out, but it's still obviously something that can both live on land and water. So I mean, and that's just, that's not based in reality or anything, it's just kind of my thinking and my thought process on it is all.

Speaker 2: 25:27

I just don't think so. I think that the reality of our world there are so many animal species and varieties because we're still discovering them today. Still discovering them today in a time, in a time in history where we think we know everything about our planet. We're still discovering things, we're still finding out new things about old places and we don't have the majority of our planet documented.

Speaker 1: 25:58

What I'm saying to you is that next week they're going to find a well-sized frog in the ocean. Yeah, okay, and his name is Godzilla, godzilla, godzilla.

Speaker 2: 26:12

Yeah, but that's just now, in this sphere where we're at, not to mention extinct species, things that have gone extinct, that we're not aware they're extinct because there was no evidence left of them. And so whenever an archaeological dig, or whenever evidence is discovered, if any evidence survives, we have to come up with an entire story for this thing that we never knew was around right. And so now we enter into the dinosaurs. For the vast majority of human history, they've acknowledged them as dragons, and so the argument has been that dragons, you know, were these massive reptilian creatures that were either harmful or helpful, depending on what culture you were in, and they would be utilized as a pet animal tool, or they were a menace to society and had to be eradicated.

Speaker 1: 27:12

Let me say this what we see dinosaurs as all we have ever had for dinosaurs is their skeletons. Yes, and so, like how many times in the last hundred years has you know this? The quote-unquote science come out and said this is what a raptor actually looks like. Yeah, you know what I mean. It's like what we see in something like jurassic park is not what the raptors looked like, because they've come out and said well, we found that they had feathers, you know? Yeah, so it's like you know. Have you seen, I think? Have I shown you the picture of the world's worst put together dinosaur skeleton?

Speaker 2: 27:58

No, hold on one second Fill time for me while I look for this well, uh, one thing people need to look up is, on that note of the dinosaurs and skeletons.

Speaker 2: 28:08

Just look up skin wrapped animals yeah this takes animal skeletons of animals we know exist today because we've got their skeletons, and it does what they do with dinosaur bones. It it just wraps up what the skeleton looks like and that's the animal you get and when you compare it to the actual animal it belongs to, it looks nothing like the animal it came from. Have you uh?

Speaker 1: 28:32

have you also seen. It's like you show somebody oh, look at this picture somebody drew based off of looking at the skeleton of a creature that's alive today and then, compared to what it actually looks like Like, just draw based off of what you think this animal would be. And they draw it and they show it. And it's like somebody drew this monstrous looking creature and it's a hippo or a dog, yeah, that kind of stuff, creature, and it's a hippo or a dog? Yeah, and you know what I mean? That kind of stuff.

Speaker 1: 29:08

And it's like well, hold up a minute. We're sitting here gauging what something looks like or how it actually interacts with the world, based off of its skeleton. That logically doesn't make sense, because we can prove with things that we have today that just because you see a skeleton does not mean we know what it looks like or how it functioned in the world. So it sounds like I'm siding with you, by the way, but personally, to get back on topic a little bit, I don't feel like I'm somewhere in the middle. There's aspects of old Earth that I agree with and aspects of new Earth that I agree with, like, for example, with dinosaurs. They didn't necessarily have to live with humans, but that doesn't mean that they were millions of years separated from people either. Yeah, the only thing is, I would argue that they were millions of years separated from people either.

Speaker 2: 30:02

Yeah, the only thing is, I would argue that they did live with humans, because we've got hieroglyphic drawings of things that look awful, like skeletons of dinosaurs that we have today.

Speaker 1: 30:16

Sure, but we have the same thing. We have pictures and images of these things that are skeletons.

Speaker 2: 30:22

Yeah, but I'm saying is, if these dinosaurs died off millions of years ago, why are the Egyptians writing hieroglyphs with these creatures in them?

Speaker 1: 30:33

But are they the skeletons of the creatures or actual creatures?

Speaker 2: 30:36

No, it's a rendition of the creature and it looks very similar to what we try to say. The creature looks like from the skeletons that we've dug up.

Speaker 1: 30:45

So this real quick, and then we can get back to yours. This is an image of a dinosaur skeleton put together in 1663. Oh my gosh. So describe that to everybody.

Speaker 2: 30:57

It's essentially a two-legged unicorn is what it looks like With a long tail. Essentially, a two-legged unicorn is what it looks like With a long tail, with a long tail.

Speaker 1: 31:06

Yeah, that's pretty rough. So it's like we don't know Moral of the story. We as people have no idea what we're doing. We love, love, love to act like we know what we're doing all the time. So it's just like you can't trust something that you get in a textbook in school because it's consistently changing, because we're always consistently disproving something that somebody else came up with, which again also greatly rudes the Bible, because it still exists, so separate, so far separated from the events of the Bible, and things are not changing. People are trying to change it, but you can't prove that it needs to be changed.

Speaker 2: 31:54

Yeah, the only thing we'll have to do a deeper dive on dinosaurs in a long time, but that's another thing that was developed. The term dinosaur was developed in the 1800s there we go again.

Speaker 1: 32:07

If you listen to last week, everything's happening in the 1800s. Well, that's what I was going to get with this with old earth theory.

Speaker 2: 32:14

It spawns from the darwinism evolution like. That's where we get the, the point where we get to old earth versus young earth creationism. It only comes up because of the theory of evolution. The theory of evolution requires a long and old earth, long period of time with an old earth, in order for it to work, and so they talk about evidence that they have for it, and so that's what spirals us into this.

Speaker 2: 32:49

Well, the text of the Bible does not support a young earth creation because of hyperbole and metaphor, and actually there's some contradictions that go into it.

Speaker 2: 32:56

If you take a literal reading of the text, then there's no possible way it supports young earth. Blah, blah, blah, blah, all that stuff. But the only reason that they're bringing that up is because they believe in an old earth, and they and the reason they believe in an old earth is not because of what they read from the Bible and not what they took from historical inspiration from God to his people. It's because a secular ideology suggests or declares that the earth is old, and so they're coming from the standpoint well, science has evidence to support an old earth and so I think that the earth is old and I'm going to disprove the young earth theory by tearing apart the bible, uh, the bible evidence that people would traditionally use. So I will give to people that are old earth, you oldies, creationists. The book of Genesis, especially the creation story, is not a literal trans. It's not trying to give a biological like paper on the evidence of the Hebrews created all things and they all started good. When he created them, they were good.

Speaker 1: 34:37

So let me read this because it piggybacks off of what you're saying, what I have here. But when comparing what a day is in the Bible, right? Yes, young Earthers believe. When it says evening and morning, it's equals to literally 24 hours, correct Believes. Stretching the term day weakens biblical authority. And then yom, y-o-m. Am I saying that right?

Speaker 2: 35:11

Yom.

Speaker 1: 35:12

Yom. Yom in Hebrew can mean day, age or era, so that is the original word that's used to describe the day you know, the first day you know. God created the heavens and the earth. Yom Days may represent long epochs or a literary theological framework, so essentially saying that we are almost mistranslating that word or that it shouldn't be taken literally as a day.

Speaker 2: 35:43

Yeah, the only argument is you're saying that's the old earth.

Speaker 1: 35:46

Well, not the only argument. Just saying, when comparing those, I got a list of things that compare to one another.

Speaker 2: 35:51

Yeah. So the problem is, when you read it that way, you're saying that it's saying it's a changing of like, it's a changing of the time, because you don't just because it can be used to be translated as day, it can also be translated as era, or yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:09

So when it comes to old earth, create creationism, that yam could be interpreted as not just essentially don't take the word day and specifically say oh my, did you get an achievement? Looks like it, nice. Oh, is your kid? Xbox is linked to it? Yeah, nice, but yeah. So essentially saying that you can't take the word day literally as a 24-hour period, but more of. It's possible that it's a long stretch or a one event, but when it comes to that, personally, it just seems so much more great and gives so much more grandeur to God that he did do it in a 24-hour period.

Speaker 2: 36:59

Yeah, let me read this for you. Okay, we're in Genesis 1. Yep, and people will argue with this and that's totally fine. I understand, because we've been arguing about it.

Speaker 1: 37:09

I mean, that's the whole point of this episode is to argue.

Speaker 2: 37:12

Yep, actually, we've been arguing about it since the mid-1800s, mm.

Speaker 1: 37:19

Real quick fun fact. Before that, hundreds Real quick fun fact. Fun fact, by the way. I meant to say this earlier about dinosaurs. Dinosaurs are so new to us as humans that George Washington did not know what dinosaurs were, because they weren't discovered yet.

Speaker 2: 37:40

I would argue that George Washington knew about the creatures.

Speaker 1: 37:45

I'm saying the first fossils were discovered for modern humans. Yeah, like you said in the 1800s. Yeah, so George Washington did not know what a dinosaur was Dinosaur fossil.

Speaker 2: 38:00

Yeah, yeah, because the argument I'm making is the friday. Yeah, everyone acknowledged dinosaurs. They just called them dragons. And then in the 1800s, a week started labeling them as dinosaurs. And if you take evolution and you say that dinosaurs didn't exist when humans did, then it yeah, they wouldn't have known what they look like. But then you have to say all stories of dragons are myth because they're giant reptiles and there's no way that giant reptiles lived when humans lived I could tell you right now there's no such thing as a flying dinosaur, yeah, so, yeah, that was a joke, there's flying dinosaurs, yeah, yeah pterodactyls.

Speaker 2: 38:44

Anyways, let's get into the text. So we're talking about. You use the. So the argument is yom does not necessarily mean literal day. It can be translated to mean a span of time. This is how the text reads when it's translated given. But it says we'll start in verse 3.

Speaker 2: 39:12

Of Genesis, Genesis 1. And God said let there be light. And there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good, and God divided the light from the darkness and God called the light day, and the yom and the darkness he called night. And the evening and the morning were the first yom day. And God said let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament. And it was so, and God called the firmament heaven, and the evening and the morning were the second day, and it keeps going, or the second yom. So it's either each progression of creation is a different era in time or it's each day of the creation cycle of six days, or you're mixing and matching.

Speaker 1: 40:21

No, just those days were a lot longer back then yeah, but here's the thing is.

Speaker 2: 40:28

Genesis is not directly addressing the idea of is the earth millions of years old or is this happening in a span of a week? Creation, because no one at the time that it's being written has an issue with the earth being created in a week it's only now that we create an issue that we have to solve it yeah, mankind is so saturated in philosophy and the intellectual pursuit of knowledge because of the enlightenment era they put a massive emphasis on the pursuit of knowledge and understanding them.

Speaker 2: 41:13

We need an explanation for everything that the supernatural almost sounds fairy tale-ish and shouldn't be taken seriously. So, god, so something supernatural like a six day time span of everything coming into existence? It's just for some reason now that seems too good to be true and it's fairy tale ish and fake and a mythos. But for ancient peoples, I mean, creation stories were relatively short. You know, it was like and this God did this thing and boom, this happened because of what this God did. And then this God did this thing and boom, this happened. And so it wasn't like it took me.

Speaker 2: 42:03

They didn't address it and say that over millions of years, this is how this developed. They said because this God did this, we have this. That's how they understood creation. And the creation story of Genesis is saying there's only one God and he did it all and he did it all. And in the beginning, when he did it all, it was good, it was not chaotic, it was not evil, it was not done in contradiction of somebody else to vie for power. All of it was created for his pleasure and he found and saw that it was good. And it wasn't until sin, the defiance and disobedience of God, came into the world. That then God saw and said that it is bad.

Speaker 1: 42:52

Pull up Exodus 20, 11 for me and read that out loud.

Speaker 2: 42:59

All right. Exodus 20, verse 11 says what just happened. My translation went over to my Spanish translation.

Speaker 2: 43:07

Read it in Spanish Do you want it in the KJV or the ESV? Let's go with ESV on this one. Okay, fair enough. All right, let's redo this real quick because no one's going to understand. All right, maybe people understand. We've got an international audience. It'll be some spanish-speaking people maybe, maybe all right. Exodus 2011 says for in six days, the lord made heaven and earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day, therefore. Therefore, the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Speaker 1: 43:47

So young earth, based off of using that verse, says that that supports a literal week. Yes, humans rest because God literally created in six days, correct. At least I believe that Good, good Old earth believers see it as a theological parallel. Sabbath patterns doesn't require literal 24 hour creation days. Yom brother, yom Yom.

Speaker 2: 44:20

Yeah, Yom brother, yom Yom, yeah, and I would I mean everyone that's going to like get into the old earth, young earth argument. They're going to know this, but the author of Exodus is the same author of Genesis. It's not two different guys writing two different books.

Speaker 1: 44:38

I would argue that they were all written by God.

Speaker 2: 44:41

They're all divinely inspired by God.

Speaker 1: 44:47

You always have an answer to my joke that just shuts down Like how dare you make a joke? We got to take this serious.

Speaker 2: 44:56

No, but yeah, I understand what you're saying. I'm sorry, yeah, and on the seventh yom, on the seventh yom, on the seventh yom, on the seventh yom, he rested.

Speaker 1: 45:08

That's why I take long periods and do nothing, months at a time or regardless or not of if you believe in the old earth evolution.

Speaker 2: 45:31

The translation of the text is taken literally that we should rest on the seventh day of the week because the historical practice of Judaism Judaism is that they work for six days and they rest on the seventh holy day, which is Sabbath. So even though you're, you know, thousands of years removed from the writing of the text and you're saying that it doesn't necessarily mean a literal seven days, the response to that is tell that to all of the religious practicing Christians and Jews who've been doing it literal seven days for thousands of years, because that's how they've understood it. They've practiced Sabbath as a seventh day rest because God rested from his creation work on the seventh day of his creation cycle. Talk all day in the in the realm of philosophy about it not necessarily being a literal deal. The problem is is the practice of the truth? Has been a literal seven days?

Speaker 1: 46:55

you want to talk about the flood. New earth, young earthers believe that it's a catastrophic global event. Explains fossil layers, rapid geological features like the Grand Canyon, and coral deposits, not coral coal deposits, coal deposits. I need to learn how to read.

Speaker 2: 47:19

I think they talk about that for gas as well, like the oil, oil.

Speaker 1: 47:24

Remember get the fart out of your heart gas. Yeah, yeah, yep, yep uh no. Oil deposits and coal deposits are because of a mass extinction event which we can talk to uh'm going to go into in just a second but for old earth they believe that it's likely. The flood is likely a local or regional event in Mesopotamia.

Speaker 2: 47:53

Mesopotamia.

Speaker 1: 47:55

Fossils and geology reflect long ages, not a single flood, which I feel like would go against the Bible. Like we're here saying that, like one side or the other, does not affect your core belief. But to say that God did not actually do what he said he did. I flooded the earth, you know what I mean. And just to say, oh, it's just a bunch of small water floods sounds to me like that is actually going against what we should believe.

Speaker 2: 48:28

Yeah, Every, maybe not every, but most ancient cultures we've been able to see, we've been able to discover that they have a flood story. We've been able to discover that they have a flood story.

Speaker 2: 48:47

and all these ancient cultures believe it to be a global, global catastrophic catastrophic event that only one character survives because he makes an arc and survives this global cat.

Speaker 2: 48:58

Well, they don't say global because they don't know that the world's a globe, but they say it. Their existence, everything, yeah, is flooded. So, you know, I guess I could get behind it. All of society has to come out of wherever this regional global event, wherever this regional flood event, regional global, wherever this we're currently regional global guys wherever this regional flood event happened it seems that all of society stems from, it, comes out of it Because, like all cultures share this story, and so either all of humanity comes from this one ancestor who survives this flood event at least that's what it would seem in my mind.

Speaker 2: 50:07

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what it would seem or it's the entire world is flooded and noah's the only one who makes it out, and the explanation for all the things that we're discovering are a rapid flood event happens, and that's what fossilizes things and that's what causes the erosion evidence that we have, and that's what causes the example of the earth that we have today is because of the way that the waters receded after the flood. So, yeah, that's what's in my mind.

Speaker 1: 50:50

Thinking about it, I could be wrong, though let's talk about those dinosaurs real quick, because you talked about this catastrophic, you extinction level event, right? What are we talking about when we talk about that extension? Extinction level event, talk about dinosaurs yeah, so young earthers believe that dinosaurs were created on the day six with the humans. Do you believe that?

Speaker 2: 51:21

dinosaurs were created on day six yeah, with humans.

Speaker 1: 51:24

Yeah, yeah, you think so I think so yeah, they lived alongside mankind, extinct after after the flood, and survived as dragons. Some cryptids, like the loch ness monster, are cited as possible survivors.

Speaker 2: 51:42

Yeah, I was going to say I don't think they went extinct after the flood.

Speaker 1: 51:46

Yeah, this is a little interesting, a little bit contradictory, a little bit to a degree. So, oh wait, so you don't think they died in the flood.

Speaker 2: 51:59

I think that dinosaurs died. A vast majority of dinosaurs died in the flood, but I think there were dinosaurs on the ark and when the waters receded, everything came off the ark. So dinosaurs came off the ark.

Speaker 1: 52:12

Is that how we got chickens? No, Well, supposedly chickens are descendants of T-Rexes. That's the reason why I made that joke.

Speaker 2: 52:24

Yeah, I know that. Yeah, I see those a lot, but yeah, I don't I think that dinosaurs lived well into the you could say dark ages is what it would seem could say, um, dark ages is what it would seem.

Speaker 1: 52:48

So old earth believes that dinosaurs lived millions of years before humans and went extinct 65 million years ago and fossils fit geologic time scales. Dragons are myth and legend. I I do. I kind of more lean, like I said, probably more young earth, but I think that even the ideology of old earth to some degree could be applied to some degree. You know what I mean like to say the. Well, I don't have an example now that I thought I did. Like the dinosaurs, for example, yeah, right it. I feel like it could be that they might not have necessarily lived alongside humans, but not separated, like I said before, by those millions and millions of years, but like hundreds of years okay and so our you know again, our carbon dating.

Speaker 1: 53:40

Dating can be wrong when it comes to that. You know, yeah. Yeah To the millions, Because we can't even know how to put a fossil together correctly. You know, yeah. And then we thought that raptors were giant man-eating lizards. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 53:58

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 53:58

So I mean, but that's just my opinion, you know, sure, I feel like there's like I mean, but that's just my opinion, you know, sure, I feel like there's, like you know, a middle ground to it, like, yeah, not to the extreme of both one way or another old Earth or young Earth, yeah, I think.

Speaker 2: 54:14

When it comes to dinosaurs, I think that the reason we don't have them around anymore is because of that.

Speaker 2: 54:20

I think that— we hunted them down and ate them all I think they were hunted to extinction because of different reasons depending on the region, but I mean the black I think it's either the white or the black rhino does not exist in the wild anymore, so whenever the ones in the zoos die out, it will be extinct completely. Whales sperm whales almost went completely extinct due to the whaling operation. Before we found coal and oil, that was the predominant fuel source for lights and stuff oil lamps.

Speaker 1: 55:04

Yeah, completely off topic, but it reminded me. Are you still down to go hunt whales this weekend? Yeah, let's go.

Speaker 2: 55:10

All right, perfect Side note. But I'm just saying I'm not a biologist. I'm sure that someone else could bring up more examples of animals that have went extinct within the history of man, Right the documentable extinctions Meaning we've only been examining and monitoring the lives of different species of animals and cataloging that information.

Speaker 1: 55:42

And only really the ones that are currently alive.

Speaker 2: 55:47

Or have recently went extinct. Everything else we've kind of just tried to gather as much information we can, but because they've already went extinct before we started the documentation process you know it's up to. But that's what I would say about dinosaurs. People say that they're millions of years old. But what if they're not? What if the only reason that we have evidence for the dinosaurs and all these prehistoric megafauna creatures is because of a global event that happened that fossilized all these different creatures bones, you know their remains which could be the flood and, like you said, dinosaurs were on the ark yeah, or could have been I.

Speaker 2: 56:39

They were. I firmly believe that they were and, once again, like I, I think that the mystery of history, so everything that we get from folklore and these tall tales, it's not just something completely conjured. Like someone didn't just out of nowhere, with no context, of a massive reptilian-like creature, created a massive reptilian-like creature, like they had to base it off of something that they understood or saw, and so what was it? You know, like even things that we do create, that are totally made up, the attributes of those things are based off of living things around us. You know, like, take the example this is maybe not the best example, but take the example of the Slenderman right, totally fictional, correct. However, all of the attributes of the Slenderman are humanoid and demonic, things that already exist, things that already exist, and so it's not bringing something new. That was incomprehensible until the creation of this one thing.

Speaker 1: 58:02

So what you're saying is they had to base these things off of something that was real.

Speaker 2: 58:08

Correct. So either they're taking the small little lizards they would find rummaging around and drumming it up to like oh yeah, they were way big, oh massive, massive or they were massive reptilian creatures that were being hunted for the sake of you know, making yourself noble and proud.

Speaker 1: 58:30

Did they breathe fire?

Speaker 2: 58:31

I don't know, maybe, maybe, I mean there's Did they fly. There's documentation of a shrimp-like creature in the ocean that can cause an explosion from its body. There's like a beetle that can cause sparks to come out of its body from doing. I don't remember what it does, but it does. I mean there's creatures that can can produce massive amounts of bursts of energy. You know, yeah. So why could? Why not?

Speaker 1: 59:00

why not? Why not? It's just like and just kind of fictionalized to some degree, the scale of what it was doing it at yeah.

Speaker 2: 59:08

Another thing to consider. The Bible talks about a dragon and it's Satan, and so, if you take the supernatural aspect of this, not all dragons maybe, maybe not all dragons were demonic, but maybe demonic manifestations occur in dragon form. So we have to think about do we believe that demonic entities can manifest in a tangible way, or are they limited to just spiritual anomalies of like you saw something out of the corner of your eye, you hear things when you see something in the corner of your eye, it's a dinosaur.

Speaker 2: 1:00:03

Yeah, but what if something very physical that you can touch appears out of nowhere and does very physical things and there's not really a good explanation outside of a spiritual manifesting in front of you in the physical? So that's another rabbit trail we could go down, and we will Next week on the Saints, but okay, so here's an example the Asiatic lion. Okay, it's still around today, but it's only in one area, in India Now. It used to be all over Pakistan and the Mesopotamian area, like Turkey and Iran and everything like that used to roam those places, but because the ancient Babylonians and Persians looked at it as a feat of strength, a way for their Kings to deify themselves, was to kill a lion. They would hunt these lions for sport, to the point where the Asiatic lion has undergone a massive, almost extinction level.

Speaker 2: 1:01:20

And now, when it used to roam all of these areas of the Northern Middle East and into Asia, now it's really only in one area and into Asia now it's really only in one area, a very condensed area. So there's things like that. Like you know, if the practices had continued, the Asiatic line would be totally extinct. And that's what I would say about dragons is they were hunted to extinction, I would say that there is an attachment to the glory of what it was to be for to dominate it to destroy a lie, to destroy a dragon, and so people went out of their way.

Speaker 1: 1:01:59

I mean you see it in in you know, european fairy tales all the time of having to hunt down the dragon, because it's a thing that needs to be killed, correct?

Speaker 2: 1:02:08

and here's here's another example the american bison almost did not make it, yeah, and the reason is they slaughtered hundreds of thousands of them for no, no good reason, but they were hungry. They didn't eat the meat. They literally slaughtered them and left them out to die bro, have you ever killed a bison before? The thrill man, the thrill oh yeah no I did it for the thrill and that's so mad.

Speaker 2: 1:02:49

So beavers, bisons and beavers got it north. The beavers in north america almost went extinct because they were hunting them for their fur, because they made the optimal. There was an iconic european European. Everybody wanted a beaver fur hat and so they killed an insane amount of beavers to meet the demand for the hats, to the point where the beavers almost didn't make it. The only thing that saved the beavers were the hats went out of style. That's the only thing that saved the beavers. Too bad it didn't go out of style to hunt down the bison for the out of style.

Speaker 1: 1:03:30

Jeez. That's the only thing that saved the people. Too bad. It didn't go out of style to hunt down the bison for the thrill of it.

Speaker 2: 1:03:35

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, there we go.

Speaker 1: 1:03:39

Sorry, that is. I want a shirt now and it's just somebody killing a bison and it just says I'm doing it for the thrill.

Speaker 2: 1:03:48

I'm doing it for the thrill, for the thrill of it, geez.

Speaker 1: 1:03:51

Oh man, all right. Do you have anything else? On old earth versus new earth um, not really.

Speaker 2: 1:03:59

Like I said, I'm sure that someone could come up with a much better argument for old earth and I would be like, oh wow, I've never thought about that before yeah, but do people really come to this podcast for facts or do they come to the podcast for the same boys For the thrilling energy? For the thrill of the boys, oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:04:22

That's just going to be. My thing now is like introing.

Speaker 2: 1:04:24

Welcome to the thrilling episode of Seize the Zer Podcast. Yeah, I totally forgot, oh, forgot, oh, oh yeah. So the biggest thing I get hung up on, like I said, biggest thing I get hung up on with this creation back and forth is if you did not know about evolution and you did not know the requirements for it and you just read the bible, you would assume through the reading of the text that creation happened in a literal seven days. You would not say, uh, oh, it's ambiguous. You know it could be millions of years, it could be thousands of years. It's just, it's just done a lot of time.

Speaker 2: 1:05:12

You know you would read it could be millions of years, it could be thousands of years, it's just an allotted time. You know you would read it and be like, oh wow, creation happened in seven days. And then you bring in the. Well, no, the Earth could potentially be millions of years old. And so that word that says day actually could be translated another way to say a time period. So there you go could be translated another way to say a time period. So there you go the earth is actually old, because all science that we've put into this is saying that the earth is old, so that's my argument there.

Speaker 1: 1:05:40

It's been practiced as create the creation story is a literal seven days, and historically it's been practiced that way up until the 1800s and here's my kind of like, also supportive statement, because I'm not arguing with you, I'm supporting you is that god blatant like not blatantly but directly says what it is? Yeah, and god doesn't work in mystery or or confusion.

Speaker 2: 1:06:11

If he tells you something, it's going to be what it is yeah, I don't have the verse for you here right now, but it does say that you know, the mysteries of god are confounding to man and the knowledge of God like seems like foolishness to man.

Speaker 2: 1:06:32

Right, but man's knowledge is foolishness when you compare it against God's knowledge.

Speaker 2: 1:06:39

And that's because we're in a corrupted, sinful state and we need the salvation that only comes through Jesus Christ to be able to be put back into right standing with the creator of the universe. Because we all have to agree on that Whether you're a young earth or an old earth individual, you have to acknowledge that God is the creator of it all, otherwise you're not a Christian. God has to be the creator of all things and you have to acknowledge that it's because of man that sin came into the world, and we need the atonement of Christ to be redeemed, to be in good standing with God again, so that we can truly begin to understand the mysteries of this earth that we're on. You know, we see in part right now, but eventually all things will be revealed. That's what the scripture says, and so I think that maybe having an open hand on this debate, you know, is where we need to be. But whenever it comes to a debate and you look at the two sides. Which side gives more glory to God?

Speaker 1: 1:08:03

Right, which I had said that earlier. It's like what sounds more magnificent and glorifying to the creator and it would be new earth yeah, I would.

Speaker 2: 1:08:15

I would say that the young earth does, and my argument for it is is because everyone acknowledged that as fact up until someone had to have a separate opinion someone had an opinion that, oh well, it seems like it would take a long time for the development of these animals to develop in the way that they did, so the world couldn't possibly be as young as we say it is, so it has to be old, and yeah, so that's what I would say, but prove me wrong people. All right, you heard him.

Speaker 2: 1:08:53

You heard him right here right now In the comment section, argue with us about this very specific topic random people that are in the science community coming out talking about how old earth creation is losing standing in the field of science, because the more that they begin to understand about different things, processes you know, genetics biology, all of it, processes, genetics biology, all of it.

Speaker 2: 1:09:30

It would seem to say that the pinnacle of evolution of just chance, of random whatever doesn't hold up and at the core there has to be intelligent design. And then, even then, now there's more people starting to say like, well, it seems like the young earth stance that creationists have held to supports some of these areas in science. So, you know, it's like science almost came up with a standard saying like, hey, this is what we're interpreting some information to say and so this is the truth, this is fact. And creation, young earth, creation by an all-powerful God, is mythos and not fact. And now, as science continues and people continue to gain understanding, they start to, you know, have a softer grip on hey, evolution is fact, and are kind of opening their hand a little bit and saying like, well, maybe it's not, maybe there's intelligence on.

Speaker 1: 1:10:38

So all, right, I'm done seriously all right, awesome. Well, thank you everybody for joining us on this wonderful episode 49 of the saints that serve podcast do lady lady we did it lady. We did it lady. Yeah, all right, so is that all you have?

Speaker 2: 1:10:57

I have one last thing for us to remember. Okay, are you ready? Yes, just remember that also remember.

Speaker 1: 1:11:08

get that fart out of your heart so you can put Jesus there. So you can put Jesus there.

Speaker 2: 1:11:14

That's what we said, right.

Speaker 1: 1:11:15

Yeah, that's what we said. Okay, all right. So Christ is Lord and the kingdom is now.

Speaker 2: 1:11:20

We are the saints that serve.

Speaker 1: 1:11:45

Get that fart out of your heart.