The Saints That Serve Podcast
Welcome to The Saints That Serve Podcast!
Where each week, your hosts dive into the crossroads of faith, culture and the unknown.
Christ is Lord and the Kingdom is now!
We are The Saints That Serve!
The Saints That Serve Podcast
Episode 48 - Christianity Vs. Jehovah's Witnesses
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⛪ Christianity vs. Jehovah’s Witnesses: What’s the Difference?
What do Jehovah’s Witnesses really believe and how does it compare to biblical Christianity? In this episode, Jonny and Jarus unpack the major differences, from their New World Translation of the Bible to their teaching that Jesus is Michael the Archangel instead of God incarnate.
They also explore the doctrine of salvation by works vs. grace, the belief that only 144,000 enter heaven while others live on a “paradise earth,” and how altering just one verse like John 1:1 can reshape an entire view of God. It’s not just about words, it’s about two very different understandings of who Jesus is and how salvation works.
From Charles Taze Russell’s courtroom admission about Greek translation to the importance of the Trinity, this episode breaks down why these theological differences matter and how they impact everyday faith.
🙏 If you’d like us to pray for you, reach out through social media, direct message using the link in the show notes, or email us at saintsthatserve@gmail.com.
💬 Like, comment, and subscribe - have you ever had Jehovah’s Witnesses knock on your door?
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Introduction to Saints That Serve
Speaker 2Welcome to the Saints that Serve , podcast where , each week , your hosts dive into the crossroads of faith , culture and the unknown .
Speaker 1Christ is Lord and the kingdom is now . We are the Saints that Serve .
Speaker 2Welcome to the Saints that Serve . Podcast with your hosts , Johnny and Jairus .
Speaker 1How you doing bud . That was your funnier than last week .
Speaker 3No , it wasn't funnier than last week , but it was funny , Do it ?
Speaker 1lady . So right before we started I told John , it's your week to introduce the podcast . And I said introduce it , but be funnier than my far away bit last week . I couldn't .
Speaker 2I was on the spot , I couldn't think of anything , so I just stuck with the do it lady .
Speaker 1That is the Saints that Serve , podcast , episode 48 . Wow , one and up me , okay . So I'm sitting here , as we were so a little peek behind the curtain Before every episode . We pray before we start the episode and as we're praying we say amen and I look down and I see on my . So again I guess double peek behind the curtain . Both john and I both have soundboards for the show . Yeah , so he has a bit of a more robust soundboard that he kind of edits and uses throughout the uh . And then I have like one that's built into the soundboard like the audio soundboard for our you know recording purposes , for the recording purposes , and I see one button here that says you know , I have my different you know buttons and they're labeled and one says eating and I'm just trying to rack my brain to what the eating was . Just do it , let's see what happens . I'm gonna press it , see what happens what a flashback oh my gosh that was .
Speaker 2That was our political episode back in nove November of last year .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's crazy Taking us back . So if you haven't watched our live stream of the election night as we went through and just hung out and kind of monitored the election results Spoiler warning Trump won . But you know you can go back and have some fun with that .
Speaker 2Yeah , Trump won , but you can go back and have some fun with that . Can you believe that he's only been in office for eight months ? Now almost nine months .
Speaker 1It's been almost nine months now .
Speaker 2yeah , it feels like it's been much longer it has .
Speaker 1It's crazy . Well , I guess because we had the whole lead up and all the nonsense of the political race between what it started to be Biden and Trump , and then it turned into Kamala and Trump , and then just all that . So that really was like a two , one and a half year debacle within itself leading up to it yeah , I mean it was definitely nothing ever like it has ever happened before .
Speaker 2But I think the bigger thing is because the news cycle is so quick , like the next story , like the interval between the next big story is so short now that it feels like there's been so much time between Inauguration Day and whatever the most recent story is now . I don't know , I don't remember .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2I mean , the last thing that I got caught up in was the flooding in Texas , and ever since then and that's been a couple of weeks now I haven't really kept up with anything going on in the world .
Speaker 1Yeah , but yeah , this isn't a political podcast , this is the Saints that Serve podcast . Oh yeah , oh yeah . And on this episode we have announcements . What are our announcements ?
Speaker 2We pray for you every Friday . So make sure Every single Friday that if you need prayer for something , make sure to let us know . You can direct message us through the link at the bottom of the description for this show or any of our shows .
Speaker 1They're all there because I put them there .
Speaker 2They're all there . You can email us at thesaintsthatserve , at gmailcom , or you can reach out to us through any of our social media , through Instagram Threads , facebook X , all of it . We're there . So , yeah , if you need prayer , just reach out . And , um , we have a special one year anniversary coming up , so we're gonna do a special maybe a little bit of an extended maybe not super long , but just a little bit of a extended podcast where we just kind of reflect on the year and we'll have some guests we'll have some guests .
Speaker 2We'll talk about our highs and our lows and our mids . You know what I ?
Speaker 1mean , and uh , speaking of that , I saw mid , no , speaking of highs and lows . Okay , we were , uh , me and ashley were driving somewhere yesterday , uh-huh , and I saw a bumper sticker uh-huh , and the letter G , the like a . What is it ? It's not like a bracket , but it's kind of like the the greater than less than symbol yes , and then an up arrow , then a down arrow , and I was sitting there thinking about it and thinking about it and I was so proud when I realized what it meant . What does it mean ? So it's the letter g , yeah , the greater , sans greater than symbol , up and down . It's god is greater than the highs and lows oh nice , yeah I .
Speaker 2all of it goes over my head . The only thing that I get is the he is greater than I bumper sticker . I don't know if you've ever seen that , but like it's really big in Hawaii , like they've got an actual boutique store a decade ago , but yeah . So like everyone had that bumper sticker Like the he is greater than I and everyone had the shirt and everything .
Speaker 1Does it say he is greater than I , or is it like in symbols , it's he , and then greater than sign I ? He is greater than I . Or is it like in symbols , it's he , and then greater than sign I ? He is greater than I .
Speaker 2Yeah , that's cool , that's pretty cool , but anyways , yeah , that's pretty much it for announcements . We really need to spend the rest of our time talking about our topic tonight .
Speaker 1Real quick . Before we start , I have a quick little let me apologize segment .
Speaker 2Okay .
Speaker 1Wait , wait , wait , wait . Say that again . I have a quick let me apologize segment . Yeah , boy , yeah , because I sound like that right now . Go ahead . So three little things . So when editing the podcast last week , I noticed when I was talking about the DCEU movie verse I completely left out Wonder Woman 1984 , which is part of the list of those movies I know . But it wasn't a good movie .
Speaker 1She did not , she did not do it , she did not do it , lady , not in that movie Dang . And then , when I was talking about the DC animated cartoon universe not the movies , but the TV shows I completely left out the TV show Batman Beyond , batman Beyond , which was a great show .
Speaker 2You know what I think I can say with everybody else ?
Speaker 1I forgive you . Well , I'm not done . Oh , I got one more .
Speaker 2Huh . My face Go ahead .
Speaker 1I was sick . I was sick for the past couple of days . So at this point I feel great , great , my body feels great , but I probably don't sound great .
Speaker 2Well , I think you sound great . I just think that there's a random . I got the black lung pop .
Speaker 1It does and I'm coughing randomly , but it doesn't hurt . Like it did .
Speaker 2First person to comment what movie that's from . Do it one more time for us Gets a virtual high five from me .
Prayer Requests and Announcements
Speaker 2I've got the black lung pop .
Speaker 1I feel like that's going to be like a cartoon of some kind . Nope , not a cartoon . All right , in the comments tell us what cartoon that is . It is a movie with .
Speaker 2I don't know if I want to say no , don't give any hints .
Speaker 1Okay , just talk about it , just reveal it next week .
Speaker 2It's not a cartoon , I'll reveal it next week . Okay , all right , so tonight our topic .
Speaker 1So Tyler you always forget about the T-man .
Speaker 2You know what I need to apologize .
Speaker 1Yeah , boy .
Speaker 2Tyler , I'm sorry for not including you in our segment transitions . So , Tyler , this is your transition . We are going to end our main topic , which is Christians vs JWs or Christians vs Jehovah's Witnesses .
Speaker 1That's right . Knock knock . Who's there , the Jehovah's Witness at that's right . Knock knock . Who's there , the Jehovah's Witness at your door .
Speaker 2Oh boy , oh boy . No , I actually ironically , like when I got serious and devoted myself to Christ and , like , became a believer , I have not run into any opportunity to talk to it .
Speaker 1Like when you have enough knowledge and you have enough like what is it ? The
Brief Apologies and Corrections
Speaker 1drive to spread the word of God .
Speaker 2Yeah , now that I have my own faith , like that , I I know what . I believe the opportunity to discuss it , like with him knocking on my door , hasn't really happened like I've had one time . And the ironic thing is I did not realize they were jws , because they came knocked on my door , invited me to a sunday service or invited us to an easter service . That was on saturday night and we already had something going on with our church , I think . But I was like , oh , I'd love to make it , but I can't . And he's like , all right , but we're just talking about Jesus Christ , the Son of God , who died . And I was like , yep , I totally believe that . He's like , okay , great . And then he left and that was it . And like , literally , it was the once he drove off I did the head slap . I was like , oh , he was a Jehovah's Witness . No , no .
Speaker 1So kind of similar to that for me was like somebody came to the door and answered it and just invited us and handed me a pamphlet . And I'm just kind of like because at the church I was going to we did that all the time , you know what I mean . Like went and talked to people and just like knocked on doors and invited them to church and I'm just like in my mind when they came , like they said I want you to come . And just in my mind I'm like , well , I already have a church . So I kind of ignored it . No , and set it down on the counter and then later on looked at like oh , this is for jehovah's witness , like jehovah's witnesses .
Speaker 2and I just do it in the trash . It's like dang got him , got him hold up there , uh . No , yeah , the only other time I've had when I was working for other people , I had someone who was one of our technicians when I was a manager . He came in and worked for a little while . He was a Jehovah's Witness . We would talk and , uh , I think I I mean I don't think that he stopped being a jehovah's witness , but I think I gave him a lot to think about , because the biggest thing like and we'll get into it , but the jehovah's witness have their own translation of the bible , the new living translation is that what it's called ?
Speaker 1yeah , in nw .
Speaker 2So they like , but their belief is this is the only accurate translation . All other translations are wrong , and so if you use any other translation , it won't be as accurate as the NLT NWT .
Speaker 1NWT , nwo , I thoughtT .
Speaker 2NWT , nwo I thought it was New World Order . I thought it was New Living Translation .
Speaker 1My notes say NWT New World , translation , new World .
Speaker 2Translation . Okay , anyways , but yeah , so you know , him and I were talking one time and we went to I mean , we went to the classic verse and john 1 1 in the beginning was the word and the word was with god and the word was god . And in the context of that he's talking about jesus christ . But so in the translation that the jw's use , it translates it different . It doesn't say that in the beginning was the word and the word was with God , the word was with God or the word was God . It says like the word was a God , it separates the two .
Speaker 2And so him and I got to talking about that and he's like , well , you know , some translations translate it that way and some translated the other . I was like no translations translate it that way and some translate it the other . I was like , no , the only one that translated that way is your translation . And so I walked him through , cause I had the app out . I pulled up different translation after translation after translation , the only one that altered . They all said it the exact same way . The only one that altered was the Jehovah's witness Bible . And and the conversation just stopped after that . He was just like , oh , I'm oh .
Speaker 1Oh yeah , so I was talking to a coworker about this this week , about just kind of talking to people who disagree with you or need the word yeah , and it's like we can approach people and we should approach people , but no , no one's really if especially lost people yeah they're not gonna really take it and utilize it and consider it .
Speaker 1Yeah , unless they're willing to take it and utilize it and consider it . Like if you just go up to somebody randomly and say , god , god loves you , this is why God loves you , you need to be saved you say that they're going to think you're crazy . It's people who you can plant that seed , but until somebody really wants to make a change in their life , they're not going to make a change in their life .
Speaker 2Yeah , the Bible talks about it with . The Holy Spirit has to put that conviction on your heart , like the light has to shine into your life in order for you to realize that something's off .
Speaker 1I mean , you might be that seed to start that . But it's more of a story . It's up to you to choose Christ .
Speaker 2The Bible does say you have to confess with your mouth and believe in your heart and you will be saved . So yeah , that's the key word you . It ultimately comes down to each individual .
Origins and Background of Jehovah's Witnesses
Speaker 2You know there is the argument that the Calvinist will make that it's the Holy Spirit overwhelming you and , you know , leading you into that because you were predestined to be saved anyways . But regardless of whether you're a Calvinist or anything else , it's still clear that you have to profess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Christ is Lord to be saved . So you know , that's the little side note amongst evangelicals , but with Jehovah's Witnesses , that's a whole other ballgame .
Speaker 1Mm-hmm . So let's read what I have on the—just a quick background on Jehovah's Witnesses . Okay , I have on the . Just a quick background on Jehovah's Witnesses . Okay , so it was founded in the 1870s by Charles Taze Russell in Pennsylvania . Can we just acknowledge that there's- . I haven't even got into it . We're already acknowledging something .
Speaker 2Well , there's some weird things about the 1800s , because we have Mormonism , JWs and dispensationalists all pop up in the 1800s in America . Hmm .
Speaker 1It was originally known as the Bible Student Movement . In 1931 , under the leadership of Joseph Franklin Rutherford , the group adopted the name Jehovah's Witnesses to distinguish themselves from other Bible student groups . Their official legal organization is the Watchtower Bible and Track Society . They are known for door-to-door evangelism , literature distribution like the book , the Watchtower and Awake magazines and strict adherence to organizational teachings .
Speaker 2In that I would like to make the note that when they say that , they're saying that Jehovah Witnesses are only allowed to source from Jehovah Witness approved documentation , Meaning they can't use Google to just Google whatever . They have to go to the JWorg website or other approved websites to do research and to prep .
Speaker 1So I got all my information from Google , so none of my sources are JW approved .
Speaker 2They're not approved by the , whatever they're called , the eight dudes who oversee the Watchtower . I don't remember what they're called .
Speaker 1Superman , wonder Woman , martian Manhunter , dudes who oversee the watchtower . I don't remember who they , what they're called superman , wonder woman . Yeah , martian man hunter .
Speaker 2It's like the slaves of something I don't . I can't remember what they call themselves . It's the leadership for jehovah's witness .
Speaker 1It says uh , I thought I had the name here in my notes . Maybe I do do later on .
Speaker 2They call themselves , they give themselves a name , but they're the leadership for the overall Jehovah's Witness Church and they're the ones who decide what curriculum gets to be used . They're the ones who publish the Watchtower tracks all of it .
Speaker 1So , talking about their literature , what they read from their bible it's like we talked about before is the new world translation , and it was produced by anonymous watchtower translators . Certain passages are reworded to support jw doctrine , like john 1.1 , which for them reads the word was a God instead of the word was God . So it's like we've talked about that too . It's just like you can't warp God's word Like just like strike one right there you know Correct .
Speaker 2But the argument is is that their translation is the only true translation ? All the other ones have been corrupted , or ?
Speaker 1altered . But like you said earlier when talking to that guy that you used to work with , it's like here's all the other ones .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1And then these are all say the same thing , except for yours .
Speaker 2Yeah , what was the name of the founder again ?
Speaker 1Charles Taze Russell . Charles Taze Russell .
Speaker 2Charles Taze Russell . I listened to a lecture on Jehovah's Witnesses and one of the things that was brought up is that Charles Taze Russell . I'll just read this AI overview real quick . It kind of sums it up . You know , In a libel case against a Canadian pastor named Reverend JJ Ross , Charles Taze Russell was questioned about his knowledge of Greek .
Speaker 2So basically , JJ Ross said some things about Charles Taze Russell . Basically , JJ Ross said some things about Charles Taze Russell . Charles Taze Russell brought him to court about it for you know , whatever . But then he in that in cross-examination , Russell was asked if he knew the Greek and he said yes , I do greek . And he said yes , I do . And then they started bringing the greek to him , to him and asked him to tell them which letters they were . And then he started backtracking to . Ultimately it led to he flat out said in court and it was documented he does not know the greek , but his translation , he does not know the Greek , but his translation alters from all other translations and the authority behind it was that he knows the Greek better than everybody else .
Speaker 1And talking about this is it's . You know we talked about the Bible for what they read , for Jehovah's Witnesses and for Christianity or Protestants . It's widely accepted translations King James Version , esv , niv , translated by committees of scholars from original Hebrew , aramaic and Greek manuscripts .
Speaker 2Yeah , I've got the PDF file with the transcription right here , so I'm just going to read it to you . Okay , this is from the court case . Attorney Stanton , do you know the Greek alphabet ? Russell ? Oh yes , oh yeah , attorney , can you tell me the correct letters if you see them , russell , some of them . I might make a mistake on some of them . Attorney , would you tell me the names of those on the top page of 447 ? I have got here from Wellcott and Hort Greek New Testament . So a New Testament . That's strictly in the original Greek . It's not a translation .
Speaker 1And what does it say ?
Speaker 2Russell . Well , I don't know , attorney , you can't tell what those letters are . Look at them and see if you know . Attorney , you can't tell what those letters are . Look at them and see if you know , russell . My way . Attorney Stan interrupts here with are you familiar with the Greek language , russell ? No , so there you go .
Speaker 1Right , like what ? What you're telling me is you're reading and putting your faith into somebody who is claiming that they translated the original manuscripts , the original translation , the Greek translation of the Bible , and said I found a new translation . Then says I don't know Greek .
Speaker 2Yeah , and this took place on March 17th 1913 . So you can I mean I pulled it up by doing a quick Google search Right here's a PDF file that gives you some info from the court case .
Speaker 1So you know it's Just keep that in your back pocket , ready for the next Jehovah's Witness you run into .
Speaker 2Yeah , just print it off and hand it out to them when they hand you the Watchtower .
Speaker 1This is my . What are they called Watchtower pamphlet ? No , this is my pamphlet I'm handing out for my Lord and Savior , jesus Christ . This is just a court case document . Yeah .
Speaker 2Exactly , you lose Jack , oh man . Okay , so what else do you want to ?
Speaker 1talk about their interpretation is a centralized authority . The governing body , currently located in Warwick , new York , decides official doctrine and interpretation . Personal interpretation , apart from Watchtower teaching , is discouraged .
Speaker 2Come on , don't be crazy , don't be crazy .
Speaker 1But for real , though it's crazy . Again , it's this . We talked about it before . But this cult mentality of don't diverge at all , Don't come to your understanding of it , Don't study it , Just believe what we tell you yep , it's really .
Speaker 2This is my new uh cult button .
Speaker 1Oh yeah , because they're busting down doors ? Oh , because they're drinking the kool-aid oh yeah , it's the kool-aid man .
Speaker 2oh yeah , oh yeah , oh yeah , anyways , yeah . Does it say on there because I , because we were talking about that a minute ago the council and their name ? No , it doesn't give the name , that , it's just the governing body .
Speaker 1Governing body . If you know the name of what the governing body of the of the Jehovah's Witnesses are , let us know in the comments . I'm going to know . They got to . Let us know in the comments . I'm gonna . I'm gonna find out . They gotta let us know in the comments no , I must know , is it something awesome , like an awesome sounding name like a rock star ? No , like group name . What is it ? It ?
Speaker 2doesn't ? Uh , it has all the names . There's an ai search that gives all the names of the governing body . Oh , that's funny what ?
Speaker 1It gives each name of oh , the actual , current governing body , the actual , current governing body . One of them's name is David .
Speaker 2David Splane . David Splane , Is it really ? I mean according to that .
Speaker 1Google search . Oh no , I was literally just throwing something out there making a guess .
Speaker 2No , you got it .
Speaker 1There you go , David , I leveled up . And then , of course , for Christianity . Guided by the Holy Spirit , any believer can study and understand Scripture without a human governing body . That's Christianity , kind of how we are allowed to interpret .
Speaker 2Yeah , the guy that I was listening to . He had a lot of really good information , but he brought forth that the Jehovah's Witness organization put out an article basically saying that the Vatican says that they're the only authority that can translate scripture , and they put out an article saying anyone can , and then within I think it was like 15 years , they put out that only Jehovah's Witnesses , the leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses , can translate scripture . So they literally like within you know two decades , they they go from saying like no one has supreme authority over God's word to we have supreme authority over God's word when it comes to translation . Tsk , tsk , tsk .
Speaker 1It's like uh , what is it Netflix saying ? Saying , oh yeah , you can share your passwords to when it wasn't working out for them . Yeah , yeah , you can't share your passwords anymore not anymore .
Speaker 2Well , you can share it , it's just they won't be able to . They'll shut it down .
Speaker 1You can't have multiple locations but it was crazy because how much they pushed for share your passwords , we don't care , do it . We're not a dictatorship here . You know they they really pushed it and like almost pretty much said we'll never make you not share your passwords . Yeah to when it became affecting their money . Yeah , for real
The Bible Translation Controversy
Speaker 1it . Now you're not allowed to share passwords , going to the extent of punishing you if you share your passwords .
Speaker 2It's the same way where it's like you can do what you want until it impacts what we're doing . Yeah , that PDF that I read from it comes from TAMinistriesnet , just in case anybody wants to know . But if you I mean literally if you type in Jehovah's Witness court case like it , you should find plenty .
Speaker 1So for those who want to know more , so final authority on scripture , watchtower publications and governing bodies' rulings are considered the definitive explanation of Scripture . Members are expected to align with these interpretations , period , and then with Christianity . The Bible is the ultimate and only infallible authority for faith and practice . Church leaders may teach and guide , but their authority is under scripture , which I agree with that . I hope so , because that's what we do as Christians .
Speaker 2That's what we do as evangelical , non-denominational Well , I guess denominations do it . What am I looking for ? Protestant ? That's what we believe as Protestants .
Speaker 1There you go yeah , boy . I just feel offended with my current voice state every time you press that button . Do it lady . I don't know if I should be offended or laugh . Just laugh . If I laugh , I'll cough . Do it lady . Got him , got me .
Speaker 2Oh man .
Speaker 1You want to talk about views on God and the Trinity .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , because they don't believe in the Trinity , they don't Yep Jehovah's Witness are .
Speaker 1I don't know what it's called so the trinity being god the father , god the father , god the son and god the holy spirit well , the trinity being god , three persons , one being right .
Speaker 2So yeah , the father , holy Spirit are three individual persons , all part of that , are all part of one being , which is God .
Speaker 1Right . So their views on God . Jehovah is the one true God . The concept of the Trinity is rejected as unbiblical for Jehovah's Witnesses , unbiblical For Christianity Protestant . One God in three persons , father , son and Holy Spirit , co-equal and co-eternal , which is that's the Trinity , that is our Trinity , yes , the true Trinity .
Speaker 2The true Trinity , that's the Trinity belief , because it's good to point out that the Mormons don't believe in the Trinity . They believe that God the Father , god the Son , god the Holy Spirit are three separate entities , three separate beings and persons , that God the Father , god the Son , god the Holy Spirit are three separate entities , three separate beings and persons . And Jehovah's Witnesses believe that God the Father is the only God and Jesus is his only son or his first son , but not part of him , not part of him .
Speaker 2Not part of him , not God Lesser than him . They also believe that Jesus Christ , the man , died and did not come back to life .
Speaker 1So Jesus is the first . This is what Jehovah's Witnesses believe . Yeah , the first creation . Jesus is the first creation of Jehovah , originally Michael the archangel , who became human . He is not eternal and he is not almighty God . I don't believe that . That's what the Mormons , that's what , no , the Jehovah's Witnesses believe . That's right . You said Mormon Dang . That was like a month ago .
Speaker 2Yeah , do you know where they get that Biblically ?
Speaker 1Yeah , Jesus is the archangel . I'll assume some mistranslation .
Speaker 2Revelations 1115 . Are you ready ? I'm going to go to Revelations 1115 .
Speaker 1Oh , this is where they get that from . Okay go ahead .
Speaker 2This is one of their verses for it and this is what they use on their website to talk about Jesus . And so it says and the seventh angel sounded , and there were great voices in heaven saying the kingdom of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ , and he shall reign over and he shall reign ever and ever . I think in that verse . Am I wrong Somewhere in that verse ? I think the idea of like the , and he sounds like an arcane , or maybe I'm looking at the wrong thing . Yeah , this , this portion was Jesus is the king of God's kingdom . Okay , so nevermind , that's a whole other thing . I guess we'll talk about that later , but the whole Jesus came back in 1914 .
Speaker 1What Did you not ? I'm just hyping up the okay . So , while you look for that , the uh , for for what we believe jesus is , we can't . I'm sure we've gone over it a thousand times and a half , but let's do it again . Okay , jesus is god , the son eternal , uncreated co-equal with the father and the spirit . He took on human flesh through in . That sounds weird . It says he took on human flesh through the re , the incarnation . Now I'm thinking reincarnation . Now I'm thinking of reincarnation . Yeah , sorry , you want to talk about the Holy Spirit , though . How they view the Holy Spirit . Let's do it . The Holy Spirit is Jehovah's impersonal , active force used to accomplish His will , not a person Is what they believe . So , again , it's just like God did it , commanded it . So God did it , I guess . But that's the Holy Spirit of God . It's like they see the Holy Spirit as an action . Yeah , it's odd , but for us the Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity , personal , divine and active in creation , conviction and empowerment .
Speaker 2Okay conviction and empowerment . Okay , so the verse that they have cited for , basically that the Trinity is not biblical , is John 14 , 28 is on their website and it says so . That verse this is the article from their website but it says you heard that I said to you I am going away and I'm coming back to you . If you loved me , you would rejoice that I am going to the Father , for the Father is greater than I am . So that is the . That's what they use to show that like there's only one God , and it's Jehovah , and Jesus is his son , a lesser being , because Jesus says that the Father is greater than he is . So that's their argument for it . But they have to mistranslate John 1-1 .
Speaker 1To make it make sense . To make it make sense Because we are misunderstanding another verse . Yeah , or they are . It would be a contradiction because so they take one thing , keep it , but then have to change another thing to justify their explanation of a verse .
Speaker 2well , let me pull up john 14 , 28 and just a regular translation . But once again , john 1 , 1.1 in the ESV says In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God . Verse 2 , he was in the beginning with God . Verse 3 , in Him all things were created and through Him all things were made , and without Him was not anything made that was made . So those are the first three verses of the chapter one of the book of John . So the King James translates 1428 , john , 1428 . You have heard how I said unto you I go away and come again unto you . If you loved me , you would rejoice , because I said I go unto the father , for my father is greater than I , and now I have told you , before it come to pass , that when it comes to pass , you might believe I just read 29 as well , but I mean no mistranslation there . Like it , it reads the same .
Speaker 1Right .
Speaker 2It's just misinterpreted . But in John 1 , it's different . You know , for the Jehovah's Witness , because any verse that would read that Jesus and God
Views on Jesus and the Trinity
Speaker 2are the same or one , has to be altered . It can't be the same , one has to be altered . It can't be the same .
Speaker 2And that's the big thing with the Mormons is they believe that Jesus is God . They believe that God , the Father , is God . They believe that God , the Holy Spirit , is God , but they believe they're three separate gods , believe they're three separate gods , uh , and they co-rule and and oversee all of creation in a union , a triune union . But they're not . They're three separate beings , entities . So you know , once again , it comes back around to that like , if you're not , if you don't hold to the Trinity , you have to wrestle with verses like John 1 and verses , and then like chapter 40 in the book of Isaiah , where God talks about there is no other God besides me . There's only one God and there's none before me , there's none after me . I know of no other God is what he says . I'm paraphrasing , but that's essentially what it says there's no other God .
Speaker 1And people are translating it or misinterpreting that , because we understand God being three in one and so he is referring to himself as God in different , as God , the son God , the father God , the Holy Spirit . God as God , the Son God , the Father God , the Holy Spirit , where these other people are interpreting it as oh , there's just one God and then the Holy Spirit and Jesus are separate from that .
Speaker 2Yeah , I would , because here's what I would say Once again these , the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witness , both rose , the ideologies rose in the 19th century , and that is almost 2,000 years removed from Christ . So for almost 2,000 years , the church has held the Trinity belief of God , god the Father , god the Son , god the Holy Spirit , three persons in one entity . So , and then somewhere , and then somewhere , you know , a hundred years ago to 200 years ago , these guys came out and said nope , it's this way , actually , though everyone has mistranslated the Bible up until this point , and now we're going to reveal the truth and have come up with things that are not Trinity doctrine .
Speaker 1Right , and it's funny that you say that . Like you said earlier , in the 1800s , several different cults have come out and said very similar things , but wrong things yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , and I mean these are modern , these are what's in our time , and it seems like they've just always been around because they have . I mean , it's been 100 years to 200 years since these things have grown in popularity .
Speaker 1Wait , you're telling me , the world is not only 100 years old ?
Speaker 2Yeah , but sorry , I just kicked his foot . Oh , but I think about Paul was already dealing with cults in the first century and people that were presenting a different Jesus and a different gospel . You can go to Galatians . He's combating these guys that are bringing a different gospel message and he says if , even if we , the apostles , or an angel from heaven brings you a different gospel , let them be accursed . So that's like how serious he is , like there's only one gospel , there's only one Jesus . If anyone adds or changes or brings a different version to you , let them be accursed . And so it's like now , let's .
Speaker 2That happened in the first century , when all the apostles were still around . You know , the eyewitnesses were still there and they're already dealing with people trying to take Jesus and use him for their own political , for their own political mystical purposes . Right , and the church has dealt with it throughout all history . Right , there's been different cults , there's been different apostate practices and ideologies . And here we are and we're thinking like oh my goodness , jehovah's Witness and Mormons , it's going to be the end of the world . These guys are so crazy and it's insane . And this , that and Mormons , it's going to be the end of the world . These guys are so crazy and it's insane , and this , that and the other was like . You know what ? There's been a great number of Jesuses that have popped up throughout history and they've risen and they've fallen , but the only true Jesus has remained throughout history .
Speaker 2When you say risen . They risen in popularity , not from the grave . Yeah , in popularity , different things . It's kind of like what the Pharisee , gamaliel , says in the book of Acts when they're meeting , like all the Pharisees and Sadducees and the priests , they're all meeting together to talk about this . Like what should they do with John and Peter ? This , like how , what should they do with the ? With , uh , john and Peter , because they were preaching Jesus in the temple and they healed a man and they were like don't talk about this Jesus . And they're like we need to beat him up , we need to get ahead of this before it gets out of control . And Gamaliel basically says like hey , there's been this guy that he claimed to be the Messiah . He rose up in popularity , he gained a following and then he fell off and all of his followers left . And then another guy did it and and he he gives a couple of examples . But he then he says like if this Jesus don't get involved , because if this Jesus or this Messiah is a false one , he will fail , he will fall apart and his following will die out , just like the other ones . But if this is from God , don't fight it , because then you'll find yourselves fighting against God is basically how he puts it .
Speaker 2Yeah , and that's how it's been . I mean , look at us , yeah , and that's how it's been . I mean , look at us , christianity's still growing and it's 2,000 years removed from the event of the death and the resurrection of Jesus Christ . And I think that some people allow the fear of the secularization of America and the West . They're like , oh no , christianity's dying , but it's not . Christianity is growing and the Word of God's like oh no , christianity is dying , but it's not . Christianity is growing and the word of God is being made known throughout the world . And the world can't do anything about Jesus . They can't get rid of him , they can't beat him or destroy him . And they have tried . And they have tried . And they're trying because look , we're talking about Jehovah's Witnesses . They are distorting the true jesus .
Speaker 1And let's talk about that . Okay , because you're right . They are like , specifically , jesus , um , the thing that is the focal point of our faith , and if it didn't happen , then there's no reason for what we do . Yeah and it . Yeah , we believe in God . It's not the true God , because if you're warping what is being said about him and then you take the important thing and lessen it , it's falsified , it's no good . Yeah , and they believe that . They believe , for Jehovah's Witnesses , that Jesus was a created spirit who became a perfect man after his death , returned to heaven as a spirit creature Correct . He died on a wooden stake , not a cross , as a ransom sacrifice to pay for Adam's sin and open the way for obedient humans to have eternal life .
Speaker 2And also I'd like to point out that they didn't always believe in the stake thing . That changed over time .
Speaker 1That changed over time . So how good is what you believe if you have to change it to finally make it make sense ? Correct For the resurrection ? He was raised as a spirit creature . His physical body was not resurrected . God disposed of his physical body . What the heck , dude ? And for us , obviously , uh . Fully god and fully man . The eternal word made flesh , died on the cross as a substitutionary sacrifice to pay for the sins of all humanity . Bodily resurrection , jesus rose in the same body that was crucified , transformed and glorified .
Speaker 2Physically rose and is physically at the right hand of the Father and will physically return on the final day . That's what Christians believe . He is a part of the triune God . He is the son being of the triune God and he's the manifestation of the one and only God . He is the son being of the triune God and he's the manifestation of the one and only God . And to me God intentionally reveals himself as a trinity God , three persons in one entity , because you get to see the beautiful imagery of Christ being the only begotten son of the father . You have that father and son relationship . It shows that personability of god . He's a personal god and it shows the like jesus coming as the manifestation of god and putting on the term the son . He's the ambassador of his father , he represents his father . And that's why you see language in the book of John throughout where he says I only come to do the will of my father , I'm only doing your will . And even in the garden , when he's praying and he's saying Lord , if it be , take this yoke from me . But not my will be done , but yours . You see all this and so that's to me . That's the beauty of the imagery of that son and father .
Speaker 2Aspect of the Trinity is God's manifestation of himself , is the ambassador proclaiming you know , the king ? Like , hey , I am the physical representation of the one and only God . And then the spirit of God , being the God with like God comes into our hearts and is present in our everyday lives and he is there as the personal rebuker and trainer of us in our faith . That's the personal aspect of God , you know . So it's like all parts of the Trinity are essential and they each represent God in a very personal and intimate way . So I think it's cool , but I also enjoy the reality of like . God's so big that he gives , kind of he gives . He's bigger than the . He gives out truth . Yeah , he is bigger than the book . He gives us truth , but he also presents it in a way to where we have to wrestle with it . We have to meditate and pray on his word and seek the deeper meaning that can only be found in his presence .
Speaker 1Because , let's be honest , I've always thought about it like this right , yeah , what would feel better ? That if something was just given to you , or if something was earned , like , you worked for it and you got it ? Well , we got to be careful . I'm talking about , in the sense , like , not your person , not your salvation . I'm talking about , just in a general sense , your understanding , your understanding . But what I'm talking about is , like you go out and you plant some seeds , yeah , and it grows some tomatoes . Would those tomatoes taste better because , like , if somebody gave it to you , like somebody just handed you a tomato , yeah , or would that tomato taste better because you worked hard to create that and you ate it yourself ?
Speaker 1My point being is earning something versus a handout you earning that thing , there's more value to it , there's more value to it . I see what you're trying to say , yeah . So it's the same way as , like you working , or you accepting Christ , versus even though it is freely given , of course , you just have to accept it Versus . Like you just , yeah , you automatically go to heaven . Yeah , I would .
Speaker 2I would word it differently because , like the understanding of God , it's just that like , think about okay , think about with IT , right ?
Speaker 2If you sat in a crash course for , let's just say , three days , you've never done any IT work in the past , you're brand new to computers . You're given a crash course over three days and then thrown in . You know some of the terminology , you have a basic understanding of the operating system , but you don't truly know it until you get in there with your hands and you get the understanding of how it all works , right , yeah , so that's what I would say is with Christianity , with being a believer and coming to know God , being introduced to God , you have a basic understanding , you get the basic principles and it's revealed to you . But there's deeper understanding of who God is , because God's an infinite God . There's more to know , and the only way to understand and to know that is to dive deeper into God and gain a deeper understanding of who he is . It means more . It means more because you spend more time in it . That's what sanctification is is it's spending more time in God and him revealing to you deeper truths about him .
Speaker 1So , yeah , you're right , so you could have your . You know your . Jesus loves me . Level of salvation you can be saved , and all you ever know is the song Jesus loves me . Level of salvation you can be saved and all you ever know is the song Jesus loves me . But you would know so much more and get so much more out of it if you dive deeper , yes , and have a deeper understanding and a closer relationship with God .
Speaker 2Yes , that's why so many I mean so many Protestants , and I mean even Catholics and Orthodox like they have so many different guys that they didn't write scripture , but they revere them and respect their writings and the teachings that they gave throughout history .
Speaker 2Because of their pressing into God God , they spend so much time in sanctification , getting to know God , getting a deeper understanding of who God is , and just writing their revelations down . It helps other people get into God's Word and dig deeper , and so that's what we are called to do as believers , as the church is to come together and build one another up in the faith . And by building one another up in the faith , it's by getting to know God more , pressing in and finding out who he is and what he says about himself , not what the predetermined understandings of God by the watchtower organization you know . So it's yeah , I would say it's harder to have a personal relationship with God as a Jehovah's witness , because you have to believe what the Jehovah's witness , watchtower or like , dictates . If they ever want to change anything , that means you have to change as well .
Speaker 1So yeah , yeah , I came to this understanding , but the rule set changed , so I have to change , correct what I believe .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1Yeah . You want to talk about salvation , do , do I ? Let's talk about salvation .
Speaker 2This is what jehovah's witnesses believe about salvation okay , faith in jesus plus obedience to watchtower teachings , plus works , oh yeah like the only way for you to be saved is if you abide by what we say and go do what we tell you to do and yeah , what is ? Uh , they have a term for it . I can't remember what it's called , but uh , publishers , that's what ? So jehovah's witnesses that are going out and like handing out watchtower tracks at people's houses or setting up like magazine stands .
Speaker 1Yeah , so door to door preaching , meeting attendance and moral conduct , it's like a combination of those things we're talking about , like works .
Speaker 2So if you don't participate in the church , you lose your salvation .
Speaker 1Correct , but that's incorrect . That's what they believe , but that is not correct . Yeah , jehovah's .
Speaker 2Witness If you what they believe , but that is not correct . Yeah , yeah , jehovah's Witness , if you do not put in a minimum I think it's 10 hours you have to put 10 hours . It's either a week or a month of active ministry , being like door knocking and setting up a stand and stuff . You have to do that stuff and participate in all of the meetings and gatherings and if you don't , then you're kicked out of the organization and therefore you have lost your salvation .
Speaker 2According to Jehovah's Witness , the Bible says that salvation is not a losable thing .
Speaker 1Like you , can't lose it Once saved , always saved , always saved I mean , I would argue with that .
Speaker 2I'm not a baptist , but but the idea is , like you can't be like . I believe in jesus and he's the only way for me to be forgiven of my sins . To the next day I still believe all that , but now I'm not saved anymore because I didn't do this so I've lost it . That's the argument is that if you are , if you're of the understanding that Christ has paid the price for you to be saved and you believe that and you abide in that , that the only way to be saved is through Christ , by faith , then by his grace , through faith , then you're saved because you believe that and you hold onto it . So you can't lose your salvation . But at the same time , I still believe that apostasy is a real thing . So I think that people can willingly choose to reject Christ , I see and turn away from him , but that's not losing your salvation .
Speaker 1No , that's you declining your salvation .
Speaker 2Yeah , that's you rejecting it and walking away .
Speaker 1So who in Jehovah's Witnesses
Salvation and the 144,000
Speaker 1is saved ? Hypothetical question . I'm about to tell you .
Speaker 2It depends on what you mean by saved , because there's two tiers .
Speaker 1It depends on what you mean by save , because there's two tiers Mm-hmm . So only 144,000 anointed go to heaven , the spiritual realm where God resides , their heaven .
Speaker 2Their heaven Only 144,000 .
Speaker 1Mm-hmm . The rest of faithful believers will live forever on a paradise earth .
Speaker 2Which sounds like a sci-fi thing .
Speaker 1It does Paradise earth . Okay , live forever on a paradise earth , which sounds like a sci-fi thing . It does earth . Or it's okay , like , imagine if you were , you know you , you did all your works . Because you got to do all these works right . And it's like you know , yeah , I got my my second place prize , you know what I mean my runner up prize . Yeah , I get , I get , you know , paradise earth , but I wanted to be in heaven . Like , yeah , it kind of it sets itself up for like this whole , like like what am I trying to say ? This whole like anger about it . You know what I mean . When it comes to your faith , it's like I worked hard to be part of that 144 000 , but I'm not part of that number , so I'm just in paradise dude .
Speaker 2It's kind of like . It kind of sounds like the title to like a post-apocalyptic , like sci-fi fantasy , like escape from paradise earth . Escape from paradise earth . But yeah , no , I think that it . What it does is it promotes and maintains the premise of hierarchy .
Speaker 1Work harder and maybe you can earn this thing .
Speaker 2Well , yeah , I mean well , but they're not even at that point anymore . It's an unattainable goal now , but it solidifies the idea of there's the leadership and there's everybody else , the anointed and the lessors or the saved , the general population , right . So it creates a caste system within Jehovah's Witness . There's nothing you can do to be anointed there's only 144,000 of them and they're already picked . But you can try and get to paradise earth by doing these things submitting to the authority of Jehovah and the anointed class and doing the works that they tell you to do , the works that they tell you to do . So that's what it does . Is it truly is a cult , because it forces people to get into the mindset of I'm a lesser and there's a higher above me in authority and they have a final say in my life . Right , like God's not the only one who determines my outcome . They also get to determine .
Speaker 1A person tells me how I'm supposed to do my thing .
Speaker 2And they get to tell me if I'm saved or not . Yeah , that's the thing is , only God determines who comes into his kingdom . Now he's extended that grace through Jesus , giving an opportunity , as first Timothy says , for all to be saved . He extends it but it still doesn't change the reality of God makes the way and God closes the door Right and he does not open it unless he decides he wants to open it .
Speaker 2So Jesus gives that parable of the different women who had their lanterns wicked and the ones who didn't , the ones who , and as the noble , walked through the city streets . The women who had their lanterns wicked were ready and they followed him and they went into the bride feastal party , and then the door was shut . And the women who didn't have their lanterns wicked and were delayed came to the door but it was shut . It was not opened to them . So it's that it's God . God determines the way , he extends it to all mankind in hopes that all will be saved , but ultimately he gets to decide when it's opened and shut , not some council that oversees the doctrine .
Speaker 1Right , and let's talk about hell . Hell For Jehovah's Witnesses . No eternal conscious torment for them . The wicked will be annihilated and cease to exist . That's what they believe and I'll be honest , if I was a sinner going to hell , that actually sounds pretty great , because that means that you just are done . That's it . Yeah , like it's not , like it's just talking to you . Do you know what I mean ? Yeah , and there's no repercussions for decline . God , really , it's just like that's it . I'm done . Cease to exist , no pain , no torment . Yeah , it actually sounds like not a terrible runner-up prize , almost . You know what I mean .
Speaker 2It's easy to say that , though , because I wrestle with this right . Like there's kind of within the Protestant and Catholic and Orthodox , like there's kind of three , the protestant and catholic and orthodox . Like there's kind of three different views of hell that float around . They each have their own position or whatever , but one of them is that , like it's the total destruction of body and spirit . And so , you know , we like to promote the idea of like , oh , I cease to exist , that's not that bad , that's better than burning eternally , you know . But at the same time , it's like yeah , but all we've known is existence , mm-hmm , we don't know what non-existence is , non-existence is .
Speaker 2And when you I mean if you start going down the philosophical rabbit hole , it's like well , would it be better to be alive spiritually and burning in hell than to not spiritually be alive at all ? You know , it's kind of the mindset of like , well , you know it sucks to be crippled , but wouldn't it be better to be crippled and alive than dead ? Yeah , you know , you , just it's hard to , it's hard to really understand , because we just don't really have a true understanding , little bit of evidence for it . Because Jesus tells people to fear God only because God is the only person who can destroy both body and spirit , and so it's like , well , what does that mean ? He can destroy your body and your spirit Like they can cease to exist , you know ? So , yeah , it's just , it's a mind-boggling thing , but I will say that Jesus paints hell as a place that is Hold on .
Speaker 1Let me do my thing real quick , because it does kind of cover that . So , going back to salvation , but for Christianity , salvation is by grace alone , through faith alone in Christ alone . Works are the fruit , not the basis of salvation . Correct , all who repent and believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior will have eternal life with God . Hell for them or hell for us ? Yeah , eternal , conscious separation from God for unbelievers . So now what you were saying , I sometimes think and wonder it might not really be hellfire and it might be something worse , which is that separation from God .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1That eternal pain of being separated from what literally gave us life and what keeps us going .
Speaker 2And you know , hell , like . In the Bible , hell is described as just , it's outside of the anointing of God , it's utter darkness , but at the same time it's also a lake of fire . You know , so like there's these different ways that it's described , but if you , the consistency that can be drawn is it's the absence of god's presence . We were creatures that were created to be in the presence of god and even though you know we don't see God clearly right now in creation , we still see aspects of God . Because of creation .
Speaker 2Hell is a place that you go where there is nothing about the presence of God around you . You are totally cut off . So everything that we have and we hold on to in creation that is good comes from God , meaning those things will not be around . And I think the reason that it's hell is because we were created . God created us to be beings that are physical and spiritual , that worship a spiritual , infinite god . And when we are totally cut off from that opportunity , I mean it's total , bleak , dark awfulness . And you know we're so lucky right now here on earth . I mean sin is in the world and it's corrupting people , but everyone on earth , even in opposition of God , they're so lucky right now ? Yeah , cause they're still breathing air .
Speaker 1They still have the opportunity to choose Christ to choose Christ .
Speaker 2But I'm just saying , think about everything in creation , even if you know you got a sucky 401k right , or you don't have a house , or you don't eat every single day because it's too expensive or whatever it is .
Speaker 2Take all the bad , okay , and just put it on pause for a second . There's air for you to breathe . Your body can still breathe . There's gravity for you to be able to , to move . You know there's still creation around you the smells , the , the visuals , the tangibles , like everything that that we take for granted or that we enjoy right , like the saints that serve podcast , like the saints that serve podcast . They're all a gift from God , the creator . Now , when he says that you'll be taken away from his presence , you'll be taken away from his creation and sent to a place that's absence of the presence of God and you won't have any enjoyment . There's no enjoyment in hell . I think people try to say like , oh , hell's where all the sinners are going to go , so it's going to be full and all the cool guys is going to party and drink and party for eternity .
Speaker 2Yeah , and you know fire's not all that bad and all that stuff .
Speaker 1Yeah , I can hold my hand over a light lit lighter yeah .
Speaker 2But everything that is good is a blessing from the Lord that will be taken away . And so you know , I think that the Jehovah's Witness stance , their stance , is that , like they do , to me it seems like they do a hard thing where they a hard separation of spirit and physical , and they try to make , like the spiritual is the , is the top tier , like this is what you want to attain a spiritual body so you can be in heaven with jehovah , god . And then there's the middle tier , which is the physical and you know , in the final day or whatever it's like , it's not as good as heaven because it's not a spiritual body , but you know it's better than not existing at all . So you get Paradise , earth , and that's okay , and then everyone else just ceases to exist because you know there's , it's so , but Come join our religion .
Speaker 1It's a win-win ? No , not really .
Speaker 2No , but that's what I'm saying is they're separating the spiritual and the physical . No , not really no , but that's what I'm saying is they're separating the spiritual and the physical . And the Bible preaches that in the final day the spiritual and physical will come together in a whole union . Heaven and earth will come together as one and will be in the light of God for all eternity and will eat from the tree of life . So you know , there's a bunch of beautiful imagery of that of union with God forever , and it's a spiritual and physical thing , they're not separated .
Speaker 2So that's the big thing that I would say is God is working towards bringing the union back of the physical and spiritual .
Views on Hell and Afterlife
Speaker 2In Jehovah's Witness . They separate them and create a tier system and a caste system in their religion , in their cult , saying that the higher caste gets a spiritual body and goes to heaven with Jehovah . The lesser caste system gets to go to paradise , earth in a physical form and stay there forever . Wacky , wack-a-deedle .
Speaker 1Mm-hmm , so do you have anything else for the ?
Speaker 2old JWs . I think that there is more to be said , but I don't think we have enough time , mm-hmm .
Speaker 1So what I would like to say is because I have a feeling that we are going to revisit Mormonism and Jehovah's Witness and stuff like that , yeah , we have ample opportunity to come back to a part two on this versus series on a lot of these religions , on a lot of these religions , and a lot of opportunity , too , to get into some that aren't really like . That can be more classified as a cryptid corner , because there's just such weird one-offs that we could talk about . Maybe we have like a one-off episode where we talk about these smaller religions or , sorry , smaller cults that were around for a short period of time .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1Yeah , but that's for another time .
Speaker 2Another time .
Speaker 1So In a world where we had more time , where we had more time , all right , yes , that's all I've got , but that's not what all I've got . Do it lady . It's because I've got a game .
Speaker 2You know , I was actually talking with my brother on the phone this week about how I need to surprise you with a game , a mini-game but make it something to where you just have no idea , just to make you look like a silly goofball .
Speaker 1Yeah , but I didn't come up with a game , so Okay , because I'm surprising you again , because and it's funny that you say that last week I surprised John with not one but two games and it made him look very foolish Because he didn't know any of these DC questions . I did not . So I have a game this week . It doesn't really have a good name or anything like that , because I threw this together really quick , so really I'm just going to explain it . I'm going to throw at you a statement , a fact . You're going to tell me if that is truth or Jehovah's Witness .
Speaker 2Alright , we're going to do this . First , though , Grab the D20 . You got to roll it . If you can get anything above a 12 , we'll play the game .
Speaker 1All right , I guess we're not playing this game . Yeah , no , go ahead . That's fine . Hey , this is . I felt bad , so I'm throwing you a lifeline in the sense of you should know these , you better know . If you don't know these , you're fired . All right , so again . So you're going to tell me if this is jehovah's witness or biblical ? All right , that's it . Jw or biblical , got it ? That's the name of the game , all right ? Okay , jesus is michael , the Archangel in his heavenly existence .
Speaker 2That is , the JWs .
Speaker 1That is correct Perfection . This is also kind of a summary of the episode . So oh great . Yeah , it's just like a quick quiz . That's what this is A quiz , this is a quick quiz . Okay , jesus returned invisibly to Earth in 1914 to begin ruling as king . No , he did not , he did not come on don't be crazy . That was based on watchtower interpretation of daniel and matthew come on , don't be crazy which I think we hinted to talk about then we never really got to yeah , we didn't yeah that's right .
Speaker 1The dead are unconscious until the resurrection . The dead are unconscious until the resurrection .
Speaker 2The dead are unconscious until the resurrection .
Speaker 1Yes , or known as soul sleep .
Speaker 2I think that's up to interpretation .
Speaker 1I got it here as JW .
Speaker 2Oh , okay . Well , because that's the thing is like , I think some Protestants Soul sleep is taught , denies conscious existence after death . I mean , I don't believe that . I think that , yeah , there's conscious . I think that your conscience does go somewhere .
Speaker 1I'm not going to mark you right or wrong on that . The Holy Spirit is fully God , co-equal and co-eternal with Father and Son . That is true . That is true , or Bible . That is true . That is true , or Bible or the Bible . The great crowd of believers will live forever on a paradise earth . That is .
Speaker 2Jehovah's Witness .
Speaker 1That is Jehovah's Witness . Christ's return will be visible and unmistakable to all . That is the truth . That is truth . Yeah boy , satan was cast to earth in 1914 , marking the beginning of the last days . Huh , that's JW . That's JW . Salvation requires faith in Jesus , plus active participation in God's organization .
Speaker 2That is JW .
Speaker 1That is JW . Only those who partake in the bread and wine at the memorial are in the new covenant . That's JW . That's JW . Oh yeah , God's kingdom was established in heaven in 1914 .
Speaker 2Let me think that's JW .
Speaker 1That's JW . Jesus was resurrected as a spirit creature , not in a physical body . Jw , jw , w . I need to just say W J-W . Good works are the evidence of saving faith .
Speaker 2I mean Protestants believe that that your fruit reveals your salvation . That is correct . Doesn't determine your salvation , but it reveals it , yeah .
Speaker 1The cross is a pagan symbol . The cross is a pagan symbol . Hold on , let me finish it . The cross is a pagan symbol and should not be used in worship .
Speaker 2Here's another thing that it's like they're not wrong , but they are wrong . Yeah , you know what I mean . Like , the cross originally was a torture symbol and it was used like to show the worst of the worst , but now it is a Christian symbol because Christ died and resurrected on it . So it's not a pagan symbol , correct ?
Speaker 1Yeah , boy , the Bible should be interpreted only through God's appointed channels on earth .
Speaker 2Hold on . Can you reword that ?
Speaker 1Yeah , the Bible should be interpreted only through God's appointed channels on earth .
Speaker 2I'm going to say because it sounds very similar to what the JWs would say . So I'm going to say that's JW .
Speaker 1That's JW . Why are you hung up on that one a little bit .
Speaker 2Because , like interpretation of the Bible , the Bible's on earth .
Speaker 1Oh , the way it's worded . Yeah , like it . No , what it's saying is through God's appointed channels that are on earth . The channels are on earth . That's what I'm saying is every , but the way it's worded is specifically talking about those who are allowed to interpret it . Yeah , not the Bible itself .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , okay , okay , I see what you're saying . So who are allowed to interpret it ? Not the Bible itself . Yeah , yeah , yeah , okay , okay , I see what you're saying . So it's not a sola scriptura deal , it's a hey , we're outside of the Bible , but we get to decide what the Bible says . Yes , okay , gotcha .
Speaker 1Jesus' kingdom will have no end . I agree with that . Good , you're good . The name Jehovah must be used in worship to be accepted by God .
Speaker 2That's a Jehovah's Witness thing .
Speaker 1Yeah , it is . And then the last one which we should have talked about but we didn't , and that's okay .
Speaker 2Christians should not celebrate birthdays or holidays . Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1No , that's a JW thing . That's a JW thing and on that , it's based on selective biblical narratives and watchtower rulings , so it's something like it's vanity right , something to that effect . Like you're not supposed to do , it's wacky . Do it lady . Do it lady . So , speaking of do it lady , you didn't get any wrong , so hey , so you redeemed yourself from last week .
Speaker 2Celebration Celebration . So , that's a 100? .
Speaker 1That is a 100% , so happy . So there you go . So this has been episode 48 . 48 , baby
Truth or JW Game Challenge
Speaker 1Of the Saints that Serve , podcast .
Speaker 2Of the Saints that Serve podcast .
Speaker 1You have anything else before we say the things .
Speaker 2Only this , hey , charlie , haven't done it in a while you haven't done it in a while .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah Well , christ is Lord and the kingdom is now .
Speaker 2We are the Saints that Serve that serve . She's got a smile and it seems .
Speaker 1How did I know what you were doing ? It didn't sound anything like the opening .
Speaker 2It didn't at all . And then I was like you know , it'd be funny if I just pivot and switch out . I'm like , Only if I just pivot and switch out .
Speaker 1What am I paying $2,000 for ? For these singing lessons ? That's a Catalina wine mixer . Right there , it's got to be the Catalina wine mixer .
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