Speaker 2: 0:02

Welcome to the Saints that Serve, podcast where, each week, your hosts dive into the crossroads of faith, culture and the unknown.

Speaker 1: 0:14

Christ is Lord and the kingdom is now. We are the Saints that Serve. Hey everybody, welcome to the Saints that Serve podcast. That's the Saints that Serve podcast. Ooh, mamacita, ring the bell.

Speaker 2: 0:48

What? Hey, hey, calm down. Sacred Demile was two episodes ago.

Speaker 1: 0:53

No, you know, Lava La-la-la-lava, ch-ch-ch-chicken. Oh yeah, yeah, from the Minecraft movie, yeah, which our review is coming soon.

Speaker 2: 1:04

Yes, tune in in a future date to listen to our review of the Minecraft movie, which we've only watched once.

Speaker 1: 1:14

We only have watched once, because it's in theaters and you'll have to tune in to find out. I almost said what I thought about it, but I guess it's not in theaters anymore now, right, yeah, we happened to catch it on the last day it was showing.

Speaker 2: 1:27

And our reason was we didn't want to risk getting caught up in some sort of madness Okay, yeah, we can talk about the chicken jockey nonsense, okay, not necessarily our feelings about it in the actual movie, but everyone was very good about posting online. How crazy people got in the movie theaters about the chicken jockey scene, mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 1:50

Which everything all the videos I saw were, you know. So a chicken jockey shows up. Jack Black's character says chicken jockey, yeah. And somehow or another that correlated to everybody going berserk in the theater throwing their popcorn and stealing the fire extinguishers and shooting the fire extinguishers off and all this nonsense.

Speaker 2: 2:14

I saw a video where people had brought fireworks into the movie. It's ridiculous. And set fireworks off. It got crazy. So we waited to the very end to go see it.

Speaker 1: 2:25

For all that and I'll be- honest, that moment in the movie is not that major of a like hype moment. It's just Jack Black says chicken jockey and then the fight keeps going. Like it's not that big of a moment.

Speaker 2: 2:39

Yeah, we're going to save all of our thoughts for when we do the review, because we don't want to.

Speaker 1: 2:45

I'm just saying it's just like it's's. It was so weird that we went and saw that, yeah, on that date, to avoid the crowd of children going berserk in the theaters. And it didn't happen for us, luckily.

Speaker 2: 2:58

Yeah, but then we saw the scene that everyone was going crazy for and we were like what?

Speaker 1: 3:02

Yeah, like why is? What is? What is this that shows our age? Juras that shows our age, but also, I'll be honest, that was not the most quotable moment to me in the movie at all. There's so many better quotes.

Speaker 2: 3:17

That's my point is there's a disconnect between us and the younger generation. You're right about that, and now we're like I don't get it. Dude, I remember all the time growing up when it was like, oh, doing the funny thing or the cool thing or the relatable thing with your friends and your parents are like that's stupid, what are you doing?

Speaker 1: 3:35

Right, but also, at the same time, none of our like trying to be cool. Stupid things was ever destructive. Stupid things was ever destructive, I know. But I mean, yeah, all right, we'll save it for when we do the review. Yeah, I don't again that. I don't think that reveals our feelings on the movie at all. No, no, no, just our feelings on a really stupid trend.

Speaker 2: 3:57

Yeah, I have several things to say that revolve around it, but I want to save it for the content of the review.

Speaker 1: 4:03

Yeah, so stay tuned for that. Yeah, but you know we're not talking about chicken jockeys on this episode. No, we're talking about but we're talking about our announcements. Do we have any before we get into the main topic?

Speaker 2: 4:15

Just if you need prayer, you can email us at saints that serve at gmailcom, or you can click the link at the bottom of the description for this show and it'll take you to a sms messaging page and you can text us your prayer request also. We are doing another live stream worship the first friday. I believe it's the sixth june yeah, june here I am being unpre, not having the calendar.

Speaker 1: 4:43

I only know because it's the day after the Switch 2 comes out.

Speaker 2: 4:46

Oh, there you go. Yeah, so June 6th we'll be doing another online live stream worship night, and then we were going to be doing an inductive study course in the month of June. I think we're going to push it out one more month and it'll be in July. Okay, so just stay tuned for updates on that, but right now it's just if you need prayer reach out and if you're interested in the inductive Bible study course, reach out.

Speaker 2: 5:13

Yeah, reach out, and we'll let you know when it's coming your way. And then, yeah, live stream worship and we'll have more info on our actual sister channel. That's coming out. Oh, it, actual sister channel that's coming out. Oh it's already out.

Speaker 1: 5:25

The Saints that Play. I mean, the channel exists, there's just no content on it, no new content. Okay, so it's an old streaming channel that's been converted into a new streaming channel for our brand now, so it's the Saints that Play. It used to be Regal Games, yeah, so all the Regal Games content is on there, so you can go. It's weird. It's so weird. If you go to saints that play, you can watch the regal games content.

Speaker 2: 5:51

Yeah, and it's us. I mean it's us playing games, but uh, yeah, jairus is heading that up and he'll have more info for when that's actually dropping, so just stay tuned check out our socials. The plan still is sometime in June and you can actually go ahead and subscribe to the Saints that Play right now on Facebook and Instagram and YouTube.

Speaker 1: 6:16

It's on there as the Saints that Play, so if you want to subscribe to that, then you'll be able to get updates for when we're launching and all that stuff and then you'll be able to get updates for when we're launching and all that stuff, and so that content will be releasing, being mindful of the saints that serve as well when the podcast content come out, so you'll be always getting saints content.

Speaker 2: 6:37

Correct. Yeah, and when we play it's all kinds of stuff. It's Minecraft, it's first person shooters kinds of stuff. It's minecraft, it's first person shooters, it's I think you played stardew valley with stardew valley with janelle one time, so all kinds of stuff I think we're gonna.

Speaker 1: 6:53

I think it'll be very diverse in what we play, because it's not really about what we're playing as much as it's just entertaining entertaining, yeah. So because there's nights that we will have just me playing, we'll have you as guest. Ashley is a guest, janelle will be guest on that.

Speaker 2: 7:11

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:12

It just will be really varied depending on what we feel like playing that time Sure thing. So tune in and enjoy that when it happens.

Speaker 2: 7:22

When it happens. Yep, that's all the announcements we got.

Speaker 1: 7:25

That's right, and you know what that means.

Speaker 2: 7:28

It's time for our transition, Tyler, into our main topic.

Speaker 1: 7:32

So, Tyler, this is your transition.

Speaker 2: 7:35

Into the main topic for episode 36, which is the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church yeah, it has been weeks since the Pope was elected. The new Pope.

Speaker 1: 7:49

So peek behind the curtain. It's only been a couple of days since we've been recording, but the way that we are releasing this is going to be a couple weeks.

Speaker 2: 7:59

Jairus is leaving me with his wife for France for a week.

Speaker 1: 8:02

We are going on vacation, so we're pre-recording episodes way in advance.

Speaker 2: 8:05

He's abandoning me for Europe and that's how it is.

Speaker 1: 8:09

I talked to my wife and I said what do you want to get? Do you want to exchange gifts for our one-year anniversary? She was like I want an authentic baguette. No, she said, I want Europe, europe. So we are prepping for this. So if some information in this episode is out of date or anything like that, blame time yeah, keeper of us all. But yeah, we have a. Well, there is. I almost said we have a new Pope, but there is a new Pope.

Speaker 2: 8:43

There is a new Pope, and his name is not Peter.

Speaker 1: 8:45

So the End of the world is not happening? Yeah, the Do you want to explain?

Speaker 2: 8:51

that it's called the Prophecy of Popes, and it's basically this guy. I don't even remember what time frame it was, but he predicted a lot of the popes that came into succession and he predicted that, basically, pope francis, there'd be one more after him and then that would be the end of the catholic church, but the final pope would be named peter. So this is the pope after pope francis, and his name's not peter.

Speaker 1: 9:23

So it's an american man yeah, born in chicago, born in chicago. Um, his name is robert, right. Well, now it's leo, right? So his pope name is leo, yeah, but his name is robert something, if I'm not mistaken. Oh yeah, so I guess they can just change the name and not in the world yeah, I didn't, well, it's, it's.

Speaker 2: 9:48

It's a normal practice for the pope to take on whenever he becomes the pope, to take on another name, because that's I. I think that well, I could be totally misspeaking here, but because when Peter, when Christ called Peter, you know your name is Peter, his name was Simon, but Christ gave him a name of Peter into ministry and the Catholics. Well, I guess he was at one point Peter was the Bishop of Rome, so they hold that. You know he's the head of the church on earth. Christ designated Peter as the head of the church.

Speaker 1: 10:32

It is Robert Francis Prevost, the new Pope Leo XIV.

Speaker 2: 10:41

And before he was a Cardinal at the vatican. He served for 40 years in south america, in peru. So you know he's born in chicago but it's been most of his life in peru so he's american born but really hasn't lived a whole lot in america. I mean in comparison to time? Yeah, Because I mean he probably moved and started doing when he was old enough to go as an adult to Peru. But yeah, he grew up in Chicago.

Speaker 1: 11:17

What is the rules of becoming the Pope? Do you just need to serve in the Catholic Church for a certain amount of time?

Speaker 2: 11:32

The only ones that I know of right now is that you have to be a part of the College of Cardinals and you have to be under 85. So if you're 85 or older, you cannot serve as the Pope.

Speaker 1: 11:42

And then you're the Pope until you die right, or you step down.

Speaker 2: 11:46

Yeah, yeah, but they started doing I can't remember what they call it when all the cardinals come together to determine who the next Pope is going to be. It's like the conclave, maybe it's the conclave of the cardinals. Anyways, they all go get locked in a room until they determine who the next pope is, and then, apparently there's a tradition with smoke. If black smoke comes out of the chimney, there's some sort of issue that's causing them to continue on and they have not elected a pope yet. But if white smoke comes out of the chimney, to continue on and they have not elected a pope yet.

Speaker 1: 12:26

But if white smoke comes out of the chimney, it means that they have elected a pope, so you're telling me that they can't stick their head out the door and be like not yet no, because you got to remember. The catholic church is all about tradition and you know tradition, and what am I trying to say? I don't know. Yeah, I know I'm awful at this tradition and just being to a t meticulous well, it's traditions and mechanical to a t the I need a thesaurus, are you talking?

Speaker 1: 13:04

about like performance. It's kind of like a performance, yeah, like it's to a T, the you know meticulous performance of it all and tradition and all that stuff behind it they are heavy on traditions and the practice of traditions.

Speaker 2: 13:22

And yeah, practice of traditions, and yeah, they do. The pageantry is also there too, so not letting any room for God to lead.

Speaker 1: 13:35

Whoa Got him now Hot take.

Speaker 2: 13:40

Anyways, do you want to? What do you want to talk about when it comes to the Catholics?

Speaker 1: 13:44

Well, let's kind of get a little bit of a comparison here, okay, between. So this when I say Christianity I mean you say Christ, christianity, christ, christianity, christ. When I say Christianity I mean like the more American view on a church, western, protestant. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 14:08

Yes.

Speaker 1: 14:09

So it's Christianity versus Catholicism.

Speaker 2: 14:12

Okay, and so which, just so everybody knows, I believe that there are Catholics that are Christians that do believe in Christ as their savior and follow him. So it's. I do not fall in the camp of saying that Catholicism is anti-Christ. I just disagree with their doctrines, a lot of the doctrines that they hold as a church.

Speaker 1: 14:41

And when I was doing my research and kind of reading into it, I was kind of more leaning towards of a hundred percent wrong, because I didn't know as much as I do now. Yeah, in that sense of you know, like you said, it's really more of some of the things that they, it's their church traditions, not their. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, and like what they, how they do church is kind of how I disagree with it. Sure, but their beliefs are not too far off from christianity. And again, when I say christianity, I mean protestant, thank you, there you, I mean Protestant, thank you, there you go. Yeah, so Christianity, protestants, is a monotheistic religion centered on the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Yep, all Christians believe Jesus is the Son of God and the Savior of humanity. Correct, there you go. Now. Catholicism traces its roots back to Jesus' apostles, especially Peter, which I just need to interject here real quick.

Speaker 1: 15:47

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: 15:47

So does every denomination Sure, just so we're clear.

Speaker 1: 15:52

But claims an unbroken line of apostolic succession through popes and bishops. Okay, catholic means universal. It aims to be the global church.

Speaker 2: 16:08

Yeah, the word Catholic means universal, so the Catholic Church is the universal church. Right Is the understanding of it and that was the idea behind it. But just so everybody knows, christianity was illegal in the Roman Empire until the Edict of Milan by Emperor Constantine I in 313 AD. So up until 313 AD there were churches and they had bishops, overseers and deacons, but they were all kind of their own deals in their own cities and there wasn't like unity in the sense that what the Catholics pushed to say like hey, we are the universal church and all the churches come together as one unified body of Christ. That wasn't happening until the Council of Nicaea, which happened in 325.

Speaker 1: 17:12

AD.

Speaker 2: 17:13

So the Roman Catholics will say that they date their papacy back to Peter at the beginning of the church, which possibly. But the idea of the Catholic church wasn't legitimate until at least 325 AD, when Constantine called the Council of Nicaea and brought together all the bishops from the different cities, all the let me clarify that all of the Gentile bishops from the different cities brought them all together so they could all agree on doctrine and get streamlined, or unified, if you will. So it seems like the idea of a unified church didn't really happen in the sense of leadership, hierarchical leadership, didn't really happen until 325 AD at the earliest. And then the Edict of Thessalonica by Emperor Theodosius I happened in 380. And the Edict of Thessalonica made Christianity the main religion of the Roman Empire. So or the state religion, if you will, or the state religion, if you will. So it did away with pantheonism and the Roman gods and stuff and converted to Christianity as an empire. So that's when we start to see the idea of the pope and papacy and the different bishops from different cities coming together and appointing a leader to oversee all the different cities and stuff. But yeah, you know the Bible.

Speaker 2: 19:14

There would be argument to say that there is a hierarchy or first among equals, if you will, in the book of Acts and some of Paul's epistles kind of support this where it seems like the church in Jerusalem, the Christian church in Jerusalem, holds honor and respect among other churches because it's the first church, I guess, in Christianity.

Speaker 2: 19:40

And then Paul points out or I guess technically Luke points out in the book of Acts that it seems that James, the brother of Jesus, is held in honor among all of the leaders at the church in Jerusalem. So that would be Peter, that would be John, that would be Andrew, all the different apostles that are still alive during that meeting. So you could kind of say that where you know the unification in some regards would be, everyone respects the church in Jerusalem because it's the first one and it would seem that the leader or the first among equals guy or bishop over the first church in Jerusalem is James, the brother of Christ. So which I don't know what Catholics do with that. I don't know if they acknowledge that James and Jude are Christ's brothers, jude, yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:50

Because the Bible mentions them. But the Catholics also say that Mary is a virgin. She only had Christ through immaculate conception.

Speaker 1: 21:02

That would kind of throw a wrench into her, which, to my understanding, they view her as the Virgin Mary, like you're saying, but perpetually the Virgin Mary. So they probably don't acknowledge that Jesus had siblings.

Speaker 2: 21:16

Yeah, the idea is that she didn't have other children, so Joseph would have had to have had those children via another mother, which is crazy because—.

Speaker 2: 21:29

Which would not make them the brothers and sisters of Christ, right? So which? The Bible doesn't say that. But this is where I think the biggest difference between Protestant and Catholics is Protestants. We hold to sola scriptura, which is God's word alone, or the greatest Bible, or God's word and church tradition hold equal authority and there's an argument to be made. I heard one guy make an argument that how do you get the validity of the Bible being the authority of God without it being compiled? And who's the authority that compiles it? It's the church. So you know, I could look at that as an argument. But at the same time, if it's God's word and God's going to preserve it, he'll preserve it in any way that he sees fit to do so. So you know, just because we can date the means of which he preserves his word and the location and all the people over there doesn't necessarily mean that like they had greater authority than the Bible or equal authority to the Bible. It just means that God used them to preserve his scripture.

Speaker 1: 23:01

Preserve his scripture, you know something that I think is major difference between the two is that you know and you'll have to help me because I'm struggling with the word yeah, so Christianity, also known as Protestants, thank you, they have. It's a lot of small communities, a lot of small churches running independently. Or maybe you know a church that opens up a few different locations locally, but they're all ran, but it's like maybe at most five churches all ran within the same community type thing. Sure, where the Catholic church is ran through the authority of the head church right.

Speaker 2: 23:50

Yes, they get there. The authority goes upwards and at the pinnacle of it is the Pope Right. Yeah, so he passes. You know there is the court of cardinals that handle legislation and stuff within the church, but ultimately the final decision is always made by the Pope and he decrees what will happen and all of that Right, and that's something I personally, though I don't really agree with.

Speaker 1: 24:17

How, again, what they believe not so much, but the way that they run the church is where I disagree with.

Speaker 2: 24:22

Oh, I disagree with some of the stuff that they believe in.

Speaker 1: 24:25

I mean, but majority how they run it? Yeah, but I do like the idea of churches locally being held accountable to something. Yeah, I do like that. There is a hierarchy in the sense, not in the sense that they have a man figurehead, sure, but that they have, like you said, the cardinal of bishops. I like the idea behind that and I kind of wish we were more in unity as the church.

Speaker 2: 24:58

Sure, I think that's probably one of the crazy things about the Protestant movement is because it started with that point of you know, we want to reform back to what God's word says, so we do that, and then there'll be disagreement. Well, okay, hold on. Well okay, hold on. The church, regardless of what time, has always had issues with disagreement of Scripture, interpretation of Scripture, which causes a divide, right? So because we've got an example of the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church. They were one church Right until 1054 AD, and this is called the Great Schism. This is where the Eastern Orthodox Church divides itself from the Roman Catholic Church and goes its own way and says we are no longer one church anymore because the Orthodoxy wanted to hold to more tradition and the Catholics were doing stuff. So there's a divide there, breaking the idea of the universal church, because there was a split. And then, 500 years later about is when Martin Luther, 500 years later, about is when Martin Luther nailed the 95 Theses on the church door which started the movement of the Reformation and Protestant movement, which was in 1517. So there's another big split.

Speaker 2: 26:45

So you know, the church has always been doing throughout history has been doing that. It's not like there was a one thing in time that caused a divide. We've been great about creating camps and division. I think it's important to realize that, like the unity in Christ is the unity in that in Christ. Like we set aside our differences and preferences and hold to the infallible truths of who Christ is and the doctrine of well, I shouldn't say doctrine, but the truth which is in the gospel. So I should be able to lay down my personal theological preferences and beliefs, to unify with Catholics and Orthodoxes and Baptists and Lutherans and Anglicans for the sake of the gospel, to make the gospel known in all the earth. Like I should be able to work with people from all denominations.

Speaker 1: 27:51

But they typically don't. If you don't agree with them, they don't want to have anything to do with you, even though, at its base, we believe the same thing.

Speaker 2: 28:02

Yeah, kind of there are. I mean, there's some extremes, Like there are Catholics that don't believe any Protestant can be saved because they don't partake in the Catholic Eucharist, which is, you know, the communion. We do communion and we do it as a. What's the term I'm looking for? It's a discipline, a spiritual discipline that we do to remember Christ's sacrifice for us. You know, the bread becomes the flesh of Christ.

Speaker 2: 28:39

Symbolic, yeah, for us it's symbolic to remember Christ's body broken for us, and the wine is Christ's blood poured out for us, and so it's imagery for us to bring us back to remembrance of Christ's accomplishments, for us to atone for our sins. The Catholics believe that it physically becomes Christ's flesh when it enters your mouth. And physically and they believe, well, no, not when it enters your mouth they believe it is Christ's flesh and Christ's blood that you are consuming and you have to do it to partake in Christ's crucifixion. So it's almost like a I can't say symbolic because they don't think it's symbolic. They think that it is Christ being crucified Well, not being crucified, but they believe it's Christ's atonement happening every time you take it, so why the?

Speaker 2: 29:42

cannibalism? Well, because Christ calls it his flesh and his blood. So they just take it in that sense, in the literal sense of we are consuming Christ's flesh, we are drinking his blood, which, ironically, is an issue that Romans and other polytheistic cultures had an issue with Christianity. Some of them thought that they were a sect of Judaism that was an occult that would practice cannibalism. Because the early church used that rhetoric of eating Christ's flesh and drinking Christ's blood during the time of communion. So the irony is there, people on the outside were like, oh, they're cannibals. And then people inside were like this is what we do because Christ told us to.

Speaker 1: 30:37

And then here we are, and then they see Christ as a cannibal.

Speaker 2: 30:42

Not Christ Christians. Christ didn't eat, as far as we know, didn't eat his own flesh and drink his own blood.

Speaker 1: 30:48

No, but he commanded us to yeah. He commanded cann. He commanded us to yeah. He commanded cannibalism. Yes, I'm making a very bad joke.

Speaker 2: 30:56

Yeah, but yeah. So it is pretty interesting, and I think that the if anyone's Orthodox or knows more about Orthodoxy than me, I think that the Orthodox have a same same but different orthodoxy than me. I think that the orthodox have a same same but different. So they believe that once the bread enters your mouth, it becomes Christ's flesh, and once you drink the wine, it becomes Christ's blood once it enters into you.

Speaker 1: 31:27

Oh my goodness, like just them sitting there eating, and they're like oh my goodness, are we all made of bread?

Speaker 2: 31:32

Yeah. So yeah it is, it is pretty interesting. But you know it's I don't know. I I have to me those things are I. They don't make sense to me because I don't see them holding up in scripture make sense to me because I don't see them holding up in scripture. And I mean, I'm willing to be proved wrong on that.

Speaker 2: 31:54

But the biggest thing that Catholics get away with is because they believe in that church tradition is equal to scripture and authority. They don't need to have a Bible verse to support what they do because it falls under church tradition. So that's where the stark difference is. We can't even have an argument because we don't share the same bedrock foundation with each other, foundation with each other. So if we both believed in solo scriptura, scripture alone, then we could get into the word and try and hash out a conclusion. But because for a lot of the stuff that they practice it's tradition, not necessarily scriptural, they can get away with it. I shouldn't say get away with it. They do it and they don't need to bring a counter-argument to me because this is a part of their tradition which is equal to the authority of Scripture.

Speaker 1: 33:05

So with solo scriptura, I have some talking points of what Protestants, what we believe, versus what they believe and, like you said, sola Scriptura, which is scripture alone, individual interpretations emphasized. Right, we're able to interpret, but with Catholicism it's scripture plus tradition authority, interpreted by the magistratum Magistratum. Yes, bishops in communion with the Pope, having for them it's somebody else telling you what this means and not really having you know the ability for you to interpret it and it's tradition and the problem with that, as always, is it tradition being passed down?

Speaker 2: 34:02

it can be wrong yeah, and that was the big thing with lutheran is, and he wasn't the first one, like like to be clear. There were other people in history who wanted to translate the Bible into the common tongue, for whatever region they were in, so that more people could read God's word. Martin Luther just was the one who was able to do it. The Catholic Church held a tight hold on the Scripture and keeping it in Latin, because they believed it was so sacred that it had to be read and translated by the ordained officials of the church. And the commoner or the common person wasn't holy enough to read it or to understand it, so they needed a teacher to reveal the truths of god's word to them. Which what does that sound like? It sounds like sadducee and Pharisee practice of Judaism. I was going to say a cult. A cult, no Well, but to me it kind of pulls back into that. You can't know the meaning of God's word. You have to come before us, the learned hierarchy, to understand God's word.

Speaker 1: 35:29

We know what it says. We'll tell you what you need to know. Yeah exactly, and that kind of goes into my other point and kind of like my problem with it, yeah, is that you have to go to a earthly person yeah, a earthly person, yeah, earthly man in a box and talk to them, and then they will bring your sins to christ you're talking about for repentance yes yeah, which is good in a?

Speaker 1: 36:02

sense, because again it's like, like you're saying, and sorry to interrupt, you're're good, but it's again it's, they're doing things almost right. You know what I mean? Yeah, holding, we should hold each other accountable, we should confess our sins to one another, but at the end of the day, you have to repent because we have a direct line to God, correct, so we, we can talk to people to help us better and, you know, get through our sins to improve and to where we don't do them. Again, be held accountable for our actions. Yeah, but again they kind of it's. You have to go to this person who then goes to God for you person who then goes to God for you.

Speaker 2: 36:53

Yeah, and I think that that's the big thing with Catholicism in particular is there, especially now, with everything that's happened in history and to where we're at this point in the world.

Speaker 2: 37:03

Really, because of the Reformation, because of the Protestants and the movements and everything, and now anybody can read God's Word and all of that it's gotten to the point to where they're like, hey, like these are the truths of the gospel and these are the practices of sanctification, and if you want to do them the right way, you need to go about it the way that the church has set them up right.

Speaker 2: 37:33

Most Catholics would encourage you like, hey, yeah, you can go to your friends and ask them to pray for you and confess your sins to them and stuff. But if you're going to be a part of the church, like be a part of the program for the church, which is, you know, repent to your local shepherd, come to mass, come to confessional, you know all that stuff. So you know, I don't necessarily have an issue with that, but as long as it's not taking the place, as long as you're not making that like the ordination, like God ordained it to be that particular way and no other way works for repentance, then I don't know, because the Bible makes the point repent of your sins to one another and pray for one another and build one another up in the faith.

Speaker 1: 38:26

So Well another part of it, at least from what I've seen on television and whatnot it's you confess your sins and then they tell you what you need to do after that to be forgiven. So do 50 Hail Marys and whatever. Essentially, the person in the box has the power and knowledge to how you are to be forgiven, which?

Speaker 2: 38:52

I believe is passed down from the papacy. So they're relaying the information of like, hey, this is your sin. This is what the church holds as tradition for you to do to practice repentance. So you've repented, you've been forgiven of sin, you've been redeemed through christ. But now, after repentance, depending on what sin it was, there's some penance that goes into it and they give you the different things.

Speaker 2: 39:20

It's a, it's a spiritual practice, for sanctification is how the catholics would view it and for us, you know, obviously we don, obviously we don't have things like Hail Marys and things like that that we do, or rosaries or anything like that as Protestants. But another thing that we're not doing as well is we're not actually confessing our sins to one another. You know we'll do a prayer to God and that's as far as it goes. You know there's no union of the congregation, of the community, and that's what Protestants do awful. That's what they're awful at is community and coming together and being unified and repenting of sins to one another and seeking to abide by the leadership in your community, because we believe that God works through leaders and then working together to go out and make the gospel known.

Speaker 2: 40:21

The Catholic Church has a presence in almost the entire world. You know and not to say that Protestants don't but our church that we go to, we've got sister churches in South America and then there's two in our area and that's it. Yeah, and we don't know anybody. You and I don't know anybody from those churches, I barely know the people where we go building, because there's two different services.

Speaker 1: 40:51

There's two different services.

Speaker 2: 40:52

I think there's about 400 people that attend at our church, so like and we don't know all of them there's room for us to be more—there's room for more unity, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. And the idea of repenting to one another or confessing—sorry, not repenting confessing our sins to one another, is not really encouraged, is not really promoted and practiced. You know, we do do confessional at church, where we have a time of prayer and an elder will come up, read some scripture and then pray with a heart of repentance like God forgive us of these things. Pray with a heart of repentance like God forgive us of these things, but like I'm not going up to another brother in the church and saying like, hey, I need to confess these things, and then praying for one another, like that's not happening. So, if anything, we need to do that.

Speaker 1: 41:44

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 41:44

You know so yeah. Do you want to talk about some of the weird stuff in the Catholic Church? I thought we already were. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I found out today that there is a chapel for the Holy Mother Mary and in it is a holy relic for the Catholic Church. It is the breast milk of the Holy Virgin Mother.

Speaker 1: 42:12

Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 2: 42:14

And the church is set up for women who are trying to get pregnant.

Speaker 1: 42:18

They can go to this church and the Holy Mother will pray for them to become pregnant, and can I say that that is something that is also odd to me, very odd. Well, that's very odd, but kind of banking off of, you're saying the Holy Mary, I mean the Holy Mother, will pray for you, yeah, yeah. So that is a weird thing to me that they do, which is they don't just pray to God, they pray to their saints, who then will then intercede for them. So they'll pray to Mary and then Mary will pray for you, and that's so odd to me.

Speaker 2: 42:56

Yeah, you know, I know in Protestant camps we liken it to polytheism, like you're praying to things besides God and you shouldn't be doing that. And then the Catholics will argue we're not praying to them, we're asking them to pray for us.

Speaker 1: 43:16

Right, but at the end of the day, are they here, or are you praying, or are you asking and talking to what you believe to be a spirit?

Speaker 2: 43:26

Yeah, and so there are Dude, so much. But, like, the argument is, the saints are in heaven looking down on us cheering us on as we run the race, and so when we get into that time of prayer and we ask the saint of whatever, whatever, to pray, pray for us, for this, then you know he's looking down from heaven, or she's looking down from heaven, and they hear it and they're like okay, yeah, we're going to, we're going to practice intercessory prayer right now that the mediator, christ, will bring your case before God.

Speaker 1: 44:04

Which again is weird, because again it's you, it's again the. You don't have a direct line to god. You have to pray to these other people, who then bring it to god. Uh, or confess your sins to an earthly person, who then brings it to probably somebody else, who then brings it to somebody else, who then brings it to god, yeah, and so on and so forth, and it's and I think that there is that in certain camps of catholicism but I think there's also catholics would say no, I do take this before God as a petition.

Speaker 2: 44:36

I just try to get backup and help, just like how I would go and ask hey, I'm going through this right now. Could you pray for me, like to my mom or to my friend or whoever? I'm also doing it to the saints in heaven. I'm asking them to practice intercessory prayer for me, just like I would anyone who's alive right now in my community. I'm also getting their aid as well while I bring this before the Lord. So you know, it's definitely not a cut and dry, one size fits all. Inside of catholicism there's definitely camps, and so which also there's camps of.

Speaker 1: 45:16

I mean we've talked about it before of what we disagree within um, within the protestant church, yeah, or protestant movement, right, uh, yeah.

Speaker 2: 45:26

But yeah, dude, when I was here I heard that today, the breast milk, the Holy Mother Mary, do you have to keep bringing it up? And if you're Catholic, well, but if you're Catholic, that means that when Christ was nursing as a baby, or right when he was about to finish nursing as a baby, Mary had the idea, mary preserved her milk and then somehow was able to pass it on for 300 years or 400 years to the establishment of the Roman church. And so, like what Like? How did that, how was that?

Speaker 1: 46:10

it is. It's so weird and it's kind of uh, idol worship, if you ask me well, yeah, that that's where I get into.

Speaker 2: 46:16

that's where we get into the weeds of idolatry, because there is imagery of what the patron saint of whatever looks like and they've got this sacred thing that's from them, and because they're considered holy by church tradition. The object is holy.

Speaker 1: 46:35

Right, like you said, they have their sacred relics and this, again, it all comes from human people, you know, yeah, and again it all comes from human people, you know, it all comes from earthly people, not something that you know yeah, we have, you know the Ten Commandments, but that's something that you know like directly was touched by God. I mean that is a sacred object, but it makes sense to me because that is something from heaven touched by God.

Speaker 2: 47:07

Yeah, and I mean there's things like, you know, the shroud of Christ, his burial shroud, like the I know what you're talking about. The Catholics claim to have that, which you know. I could consider that a holy relic because it was on Christ's face, right. That one, yeah, I could agree with. There's different things like that which you know. I could consider that a holy relic because it was on Christ's face, right, you know. And that one, yeah, I could agree with. There's different things like that.

Speaker 2: 47:28

But like there's so many holy relics that they have that they they put a special significance to, I mean, like there's there I can I can't remember what saint it is, but they have a preserved head of a saint as a holy relic. It's like, why would you do that? Yeah, what is the need of that? What is the point? Yeah, and it's because that saint did something crazy awesome. That was a miracle that they preserved his head so that it could be used for for whatever. So that's where I, when we get into catholicism, that's where it gets weird for me, is when we talk about holy relics, right, and some of the, some of the relics that they have, and it's like I don't know, I don't think the bible supports this? Probably not. Which comes back around again I'm still a scriptura guy. I am not a church. Tradition is equal to the authority of scripture guy.

Speaker 1: 48:32

How do you feel about? Because, okay, in my opinion, a key indication that a large religion is a cult yeah, bear with me here, all right. Before we started this, John came to me and said I want to be very careful when we have this conversation. Yeah, that something that claims to be a religion is actually a cult is that you have a human figurehead that leads, not as a teacher, but as a head of that. I am your one, that has all your information. I am, you know. A lot of times, cult leaders will say I am God that kind of nonsense. But it's typically a human holding the secret truths and you have to go to them to have and get the knowledge. A good example is Scientology. It's all behind a paywall, all the secret knowledge that they have for your salvation, and what they believe is behind tiers that you allow, that you pay into.

Speaker 2: 49:51

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 49:52

And it's millions before you are given the full story of what they're supposed to believe.

Speaker 2: 49:59

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 50:15

Like the Freemasons and Shriners and all the other crazy ones. But it's, why are we having these huge weekly long to do's just to vote somebody in and up there and he's kind of worshipped and bowed down and idolized, yeah, and oh, he has his. What he interprets, that's what we have to believe, you know, yeah, and so it's somebody and they kind of hold that knowledge and you have to be in the church to gain that knowledge and it's not free, yeah, one way or another. So I kind of I can see where people could say that catholicism is a cult yeah, I mean what the more.

Speaker 2: 50:55

the most recent one is. I can't remember what he calls it, but the madi guy. His videos are popping up on social media. It's the one I showed you. Yeah, black beanie. Yeah, he's got like a dark room. It cannot scream Antichrist more than what he's. I mean him, all of his followers, they all dress in black. They're all wearing black. Their room is dimly lit, like it's just bizarre, but they're arguing that he's not the antichrist, he's pro christ and he's the only true messenger of god again on earth right now that's a cultic to me.

Speaker 2: 51:35

Um, yeah, the catholic church, the. I mean I understand the logic that they use to get to the validity of the Pope. I just disagree with it. I don't think that the scripture supports it and, to my understanding, their foundational text is when Christ is talking to peter about the church and he says you are peter, which you know in the original greek it's you are a little rock, and on this rock I will build my church. And so the argument is okay, what's this rock that Christ is talking about? Is he talking about what Peter revealed, which is that Christ is the Messiah, christ is the Lord, he is the one who holds the truth of salvation in God?

Speaker 2: 52:34

Or is the rock Peter and the church is built upon Peter, and so the Catholics would hold to that that Peter is the rock that the church is built upon and there has to be that pinnacle guy that holds up the church and stands in for Christ on the earth side of the religion. So that's where the apostolic succession comes from. Is there always has to be a Peter in line to be the rock that the church is built on? So yeah, I understand the logic, but I disagree with it. I don't think that that scripture? I don't think that's what that scripture is saying, right? So, and once again we come back around to it, I am solo scriptor, but Catholics are church tradition and scripture. So every argument cannot be resolved because at the base of it.

Speaker 1: 53:40

Foundationally, it's foundationally different.

Speaker 2: 53:44

You hold to an authority that I do not hold to, and so we can't come to a place where the authority will agree, because you will reference to an authority that I don't acknowledge. Or the Catholics. I should say, the Catholics hold to an authority that I, as a prophet, do not. You, you listener, you listener, mr a prophet, do not, no, you, you listener. You listener, mr Gene, I'm talking to you, I'm just kidding. Gene's not a Catholic, oh, but he makes some pretty awesome Lego builds. Yeah, there you go, there you go.

Speaker 1: 54:19

Way to go, gene. Way to go, gene. So do you have anything else to say before? Way to go, gene. Way to go, gene. So do you have anything else to say before? I have one little. It's not really like a corner or anything, but a quick little fun little thing. Let's do it All right. So in my research I've come across I don't know how true the story is, but it is supposedly kind of like a legend of sorts. So, according to medieval legend, pope joan was a woman who disguised herself as a man and rose to the ranks of the church, becoming pope interesting said to have been exposed after giving birth during a procession. What oh? So? Not only is she. Hey, pope, pope, you're getting a little fat there. No big deal, it's just a little gain in weight.

Speaker 2: 55:10

But she also wasn't practicing celibacy either.

Speaker 1: 55:14

Right right. That's why it's more than likely a legend. But you know, there's no historical evidence that supports the story. Most scholars agree it's just a myth. It's just a fun little bedtime story. But it's just kind of funny to think about how the Pope is up there, quote unquote. Pope is up there telling her stories and then just her water breaks. Oh, the Pope peed himself, yeah.

Speaker 2: 55:42

That's funny, I just looked it up right himself. Yeah, that's funny, I just looked it up right now. Yeah, if it happened, I think it was happening during the Dark Ages, so could have gotten away with it.

Speaker 1: 55:58

So it's kind of funny. Have you ever heard about?

Speaker 2: 56:00

that theory that there's a thousand years missing from history because, like during the dark ages, nobody knows what happened in europe.

Speaker 1: 56:16

Is that why we had to start over at zero? We lost so much time.

Speaker 2: 56:19

No, no, I'm kidding, we had to start over, no, but like when the Renaissance started happening, that's when they started getting back into the sciences or that's when they started, you know, really exploring sciences and coming to the mind of science. Yeah, yeah, which funny truth here, if you will. Truth here, if you will. Every groundbreaking scientist throughout history up until the 1800s has been a christian guy, for the most part, I mean. There are some that maybe not, but a lot of them. It was through their faith that they explored and pushed the boundaries of science.

Speaker 2: 57:00

And here we are today, and the biggest thing with atheists is like no, we believe in science, not God. It's like okay, well, most of the guys that you hold to as like brilliant men are Christian. They believe in God. So what do you do? But anyways, yeah, that's interesting and yeah, that popped in my head, I don't believe it. I think that there's documentation during the dark ages, because we've got other parts of the world, you know, like middle east, china, japan, like they're all documenting their history, the mayans, the aztecs, like everybody's documenting their history. It's just in europe they don't document it for however long, and so they're like there's a thousand, there's actually a thousand years mystery missing from our history so I mean last week.

Speaker 1: 57:46

In last week's episode we in one piece we talked about how in that lore there's a hundred years and we're sitting there thinking like a hundred years is a long time yeah, I'd be missing history and we're sitting there thinking about 10 times as much as that. Yeah, that could be possibly real could be.

Speaker 2: 58:00

I don't think it is and it maybe I did get it wrong. Maybe it's a shorter span of time, but, like people say, like no, it's actually 3000. Yeah, it's 3000 years. No, but there is a camp out there that believes that the earth is older than what our calendars say, and the reason is because we lost time and we don't know what happened.

Speaker 1: 58:22

So whatever you know Whatever, there you go, it's whatever. So good episode, hey, good episode of you, thank you.

Speaker 2: 58:34

You got it.

Speaker 1: 58:35

So what's the moral lesson at the end here? What's the final thoughts from John?

Speaker 2: 58:41

Christ is Lord Jesus.

Speaker 2: 58:42

Yeah, my final thoughts from John Christ is Lord Jesus yeah my final thoughts are Jesus I think I would end on that statement is you can be a follower of Christ and Catholic. You can be a Protestant and be a follower of Christ, because salvation comes through Christ, because salvation comes through Christ and it's by Christ that we are saved and it's by our faith in Christ that we are justified in salvation. So it does not matter what camp you're a part of, it matters who you put your faith in. So if you can agree on that, then you can work together to further the gospel. So that would be my closing thing is that Christ has to be your salvation, nothing else. If Christ is your soul salvation and you profess that, it doesn't matter if you're Catholic or if you're Anglican or if you're a Baptist or Presbyterian. You know you just got to hold to that truth and believe in the commands of Christ and the teachings of Christ, because if you believe in Christ, you're born again.

Speaker 2: 59:55

When you're born again, you want to live in the life that God has set for you. The laws of God's kingdom. Abide in those. Why would you want to abide? The laws of God's kingdom? Abide in those. Why would you want to abide in the laws of a dead kingdom, which is what the earth is. The earth is dying and the earth is dead because everyone who is born into the world is born into death, and that's why we need Christ.

Speaker 2: 1:00:20

Christ is the light and the life of mankind in John, chapter 1. And so when we believe in Christ, christ says in the third chapter of John, you must be born again to be saved. And so being born again is your soul is being rebirthed into the kingdom of God as a child of God. And now you are growing and maturing and living as a child of God, no longer as a dead man in the dead kingdom of Satan. And so when we live in this new kingdom of Christ, we have to practice the sanctification of overcoming sin and saying no to the world and saying yes to Jesus.

Speaker 2: 1:01:08

And when we step into eternity with God, we see the labor, we see the fruits from our labors and we get to finally step into the presence of the almighty God, like physically. That's what I'm most excited for. I know this is supposed to be a closing statement and I keep on rambling on, but it's making me think about dude. Like the love of God is so great that he made a way for us to be able to enter into his presence, because that's what he wants. He is the way, the truth.

Speaker 2: 1:01:41

And the life yeah there you go, and but that's what, like God didn't need to send Jesus. God was not required to save mankind from sin. He wanted to because he wanted us to be in communion with him and be in his presence. He wanted that, and so he made a way for us to be forgiven, he made a way for us to be adopted as children and he made a way for us to enter into his presence. It's crazy To me that shows the love. God does all the work solely to get his creation back into his presence. Amazing, amazing. So yeah, those are my closing statements Perfect.

Speaker 1: 1:02:23

So with that, we're now going to transition, tyler, this is your transition into the end of the episode. Christ is Lord and the kingdom is now.

Speaker 2: 1:02:32

We are the saints that serve. I was like no, he's got another half hour. What are we going to do?

Speaker 1: 1:03:02

Tricked you. I wasn't prepared. What else are we going to talk about?